I had always heard people say that Calvinism is based on logical implications not required by Scripture. Basically, it was argued, Calvinists have gone beyond what Scripture clearly teaches to come up with their positions. Anyone who agrees with this assessment must grapple with this passage of Scripture: Rom. 8:28-9:24. Why? Because it is the single best argument for Calvinism–and it is simply Scripture.
From my experience, most people choose to ignore this passage. Chapter 9 practically never gets preached on. And the average Christian just turns his brain off when reading this. Or if he is disturbed by the passage’s seeming contradiction with his theories of the atonement and man’s free will, he quickly meditates on his understanding of John 3:16 and goes on his way. Some do deal with this passage, but they so blatantly come to it with their preconceived notions as to what Scripture already does teach, that they cannot simply sit at the feet of Romans 9 and learn.
The article I am about to link to, is a good and simply written exposition of this passage. I encourage all to read it and let Scripture speak to this debate. In my own experience, I have found that it is the non Calvinist who does not let the Scripture speak. They are the ones who depend upon logical arguments for their position. There are scores and scores of passages which plainly teach the various truths which Calvinists singularly affirm. As many have said before, the Calvinist really does affirm everything a non Calvinist affirms about the gospel and God. Yet they affirm more, because they are compelled by Scripture to do so.
So, here is the article, An Overview of Romans 8:28-9:24, compliments of Reformation Theology Blog. Do not let others do your thinking for you. Read and study, and let Scripture be the authority for you on this issue.
∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7
cool post! i’m talking about calvinism in my blog as well! 🙂
Emily,
Thanks for the comments. I’ll have to keep an eye on your blog.
God bless.
Hi Bob,
Here are the twin towers that the flag of Calvinism often flies from …
#1. There is the outward call of the Gospel, which while heard by the ears, can be rejected. Yet there is a second calling, an inward call (usually taking place when the outward call is made), whereby God, the Holy Spirit, calls His people to Himself effectually by working a miracle in their hearts, bringing them from spiritual death to life. I believe we can understand this passage as referring to the inward call here, for the text speaks of a call that always results in justification. Remember again what we have just read, “these whom He called, He also justified.”
My reply: This is so basic; if God used an inward call about from the normal operation of the Gospel message, He would say so.He doesn’t, so this “inward call” is PURE assumption. Plus it has God’s Kingdom divided against itself, which, as Jesus said, cannot be. God invites all, but only activates who He wants. He then holds the activated ones responsible for not doing what only He can do! Calvinism, supposedly so concerned for the glory and truth of God, thus make him a liar. And a monster to boot! I’m really not out to offend, but I can see no other logical conclusion to such teaching.
#2. To give you a mental picture: it would be likened to Lazarus while dead and in the tomb. Jesus cried out, “Lazarus come forth” and as we know, it was an effectual call, as it awakened Lazarus from physical death. Jesus didn’t merely invite Lazarus out from the grave, or suggest the benefits of doing so, waiting for Lazarus’ decision on the matter before He proceeded! No, it was gracious in the extreme for Jesus to call Lazarus from the dead. It was entirety an act of Divine mercy as well as Divine power. So powerful was this call, in fact, that there was no way that Lazarus would not be raised.
My reply: This over-used illustration does not fit the formula it is being squeezed into. The truth of the matter is that Lazarus was already saved when he died. So he cannot be pressed into service as representing someone dead in his sins and trespasses. He responded to a call to be resurrected, not to be saved. He had already experienced mercy and he could hear because he was alive in Christ..
Adam was dead in sins and trespasses, yet he heard and understood the simple message of salvation. Being “dead” means separated from God, but it does not mean that one such cannot hear the voice of God or make choices.
Speaking of Adam, his choice brought death into the WORLD, why is it such a stretch to believe that a sinner can choose life in Christ? Sinless Adam knew the truth and went into sin by choice. Sinners can know the truth and enter into life by choice. Adam was held responsible for his sin. Sinners are responsible to believe God. Adam’s privilege of choice did not diminish God’s glory, neither does the sinner’s. These are God-given rights to His creatures which no one can supercede.
A thing believed by all is thus proved true no more than one believed by a few.
Glory to God! Dennis Clough
Hello, I have looked at this passage and let it speak to me. Paul is presenting Israel vs. Gentile. Nation vs. Nation not this person vs. that person one getting saved the other not. Paul knew the OT and uses examples from the OT. Please read the OT passages Paul quotes in context. First mention of Jacob and Esau before they are even named says ” you have two NATIONS in your womb”, The prophecy in Micah is not about Jacob in Esau the individuals- they are long gone from this Earth- it is about their decendants NATION. Then there is the passage from the OT that has Moses pleading with God to see if the Hebrew NATION would be his chosen NATION. Then Pharoah leader of the NATION of Egypt was brought up when it was Egypt vs. the Birth of a NATION Israel. I think you miss Pauls point when you try to streach this into the individual level when again and again Paul is talking about Nation vs. Nation. Please also notice that Paul brings up the fact of foreknowledge when speaking of predestination and so does Peter for that fact. God is outside of time and knows all things. I let the passage speak for itself and I go back and read from where Paul is quoting in the OT in it’s context and I get the clear meaning of what the passage is talking about. Please go back and read in context what is quoted by Paul and let it speak to you. If this is the best argument for Calvanism, Calvanism is merely missinterpretation of scripture and missrepresents a loving, just God. That is nothing to triffle with and should be of grave concern to all of us. Thank you for your time.
Charles,
Did you read the article I linked to? What of Pharaoh? Is he an individual or a nation? Furthermore, this isn’t the only argument by far. I would encourage you to see my explanation of the Five Points of Calvinism to see where exactly I am coming from on this. I have studied Rom. 9 and the contexts. I just don’t see the national interpretation as flying very well with the context and especially the objection questions in the text.
Thanks for commenting though.
In Christ,
Bob
I wonder why you stop at Romans 9 verse 24…. The rest of Romans 9 speaks very specifically about Israel and the Gentiles and is also clearly a continuation of the beginning of the chapter (verse 1-24). Also how do you take these verses and apply them to everyone when Paul is making such a clear distinction between the nation of Israel and the Gentiles…saying the Gentiles now have salvation b/c of the unbelief of the Jews and their needing to be provoked to jealousy. I was looking seriously for the BEST argument Calvinism has b/c there are a lot of preachers and writers out there today who hold to these views…ministers and writers that I respect and find much to agree with BUT if this passage clearly talking about Israel and going on to say in Roms. 10:13 “For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” and Roms. 11:1 “I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means!” and Roms. 11:32 “For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.” and Roms. 11:23 “And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.” and Roms. 11:25-29
“25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:4 ia partial hardening has come upon Israel, juntil the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
k“The Deliverer will come lfrom Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my mcovenant with them
nwhen I take away their sins.”
28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”
…all of these speak of Paul answering questions about the Jews and the Gentiles and their places within the plan of God as well as God’s mercy and His overall desire to see ALL saved…Gentile and Jew.
As far as Pharoah and even the Jews who as quoted have a “temporary” hardening so mercy can be extended to the Gentiles, I think anyone can accept that as the potter has total right to do what he wants with the clay so does God have that right with his creation… that said other times in Scripture there are references (even above) that it is unbelief and even the “god of the age” that blinds mens hearts to seeing the true God.
I like how Paul ends Chapter 11…
“Oh, the depth of the riches and swisdom and knowledge of God! tHow unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
34 “For uwho has known the mind of the Lord,
or vwho has been his counselor?”
35 “Or wwho has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?”
36 For xfrom him and through him and to him are all things. yTo him be glory forever. Amen. ”
With quotes from Job and Isaiah and a proclamation of man’s inability to truly understand God’s ways… Paul said earlier in these chapters that the feet who spread the good news of the Gospel are beautiful and Paul lived that creed. He spoke to the Jews and the Gentiles proclaiming the good news. Sometimes I wonder why this isnt’ enough…why do we spend so much time trying to figure out God when we could be spending time and resources simply sharing the Gospel living it out so that “whosoever” calls upon the name of the Lord can be saved….leaving that whosoever to God and instead spending our spiritual resources on the 2 greatest commandments and living the Jesus life as laid out in Luke 4… Alright with that, I’m done. 🙂