This news shocked me. But I really appreciate Fred Butler’s assessment on this. It’s sad, as this reveals Boltz has sung about but very likely never truly embraced the Gospel. There is still hope for him. May God convict him. And may he wisen many of us up to the damning allure of sin.
If you don’t recognize his name, Boltz was a CCM singer who won numerous awards over the years. He’s most famous for his song “Thank you for giving to the Lord”.
Sad…
Bravo to him. Your reaction seems sad, though.
Gay is such a challenge for us Christians. It defies us to separate the sin from the sinner. The Bible is clear the homosexuality is an abomination, but is it really different from our other sins? Nobody else is excluded from church (from a Biblical church) based on his actions. Yet, the world has so much to offer the homosexual and, unless one is specifically searching the peace of the Lord, Christianity offers nothing but a lot of self-denial to these people. How do we Christians overcome this? I am not being rhetorical, this is an issue of great struggle for me. I don’t like to know that the very existence of Christians is hurtful to homosexuals, but I can’t fathom a way it can be fixed.
Hmm… and here I thought you were here to “Spread a passion for Jesus Christ”
May God convict him???
Can we say contradiction!
Thou shalt not judge… love thy neighbour….. did I miss the small print where it says, “except homosexuals”
Bravo to Him?? Your reaction seems sad?? Lol Helen…….. trying to provoke a reaction are we? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at what you said. Your statement captures the attitude of the world and liberalism. Not Christ or the Bible. Thats the problem. Homosexuality is a sin just as much as heterosexual sex outside of marriage is. But then the world doesnt care much for what the Bible says about things. So not bravo to him but prayer for Him and prayer for the lost souls of this world who have rejected God and Jesus Christ, for the lost and hurting that they might come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.
Note: comments 4-6 were caught by the spam guard, I approved them just now.
I thought this might get some reaction.
Comments 2, 4 and 6 all represent 3 different facets for how I look at this too.
It is sad. I acknowledge that for Ray to battle against his sinful desires was difficult, and to give up is very sad. That could be me giving up in the fight against my own sinful passions directed in other ways.
It is difficult. This particular sin is singled out for a rally cry for freedom and equality. Christians stand against this sin, but not because we dislike and hate gay people. There are some Christians and non-Christians who do hate, sadly. But our principled reaction against sodomy comes from our allegiance to the Bible as God’s Holy Word. We are equally against sex outside of marriage, drunkenness, physical or sexual abuse, etc. With all three of these things, but especially the first two, there are possible genetic factors or innate tendencies which come into play. Certain people are more disposed to struggling with these certain sins. But with these, as with all sins, the struggle against our own flesh — our very personal identity and our body — does not lead us to conclude that the Bible is wrong and these things are fine for us to do, because hey, it’s natural! Sin by definition, from a Christian point of view, is our default, it’s our desire. The Bible says there are pleasures in sin, but they last only for a season. So when Christians are against homosexuality, I think we need to be careful to share that we’re not against the people, we’re against the sin.
And yes, I do pray God convicts Ray Boltz. Ray’s personal comfort and acceptance before men in this life means nothing compared to eternity. He must be accepted by God. Since God has clearly revealed in His Word what God thinks of homosexuality (as well as adultery, incest, drunkenness, etc.), we must pray for Ray’s soul.
As far as comment #5 with the “thou shalt not judge” idea, this is taken out of context. We are called to judge and make distinctions. We are exhorted to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. We cannot condemn, have you seen that here? Have any of us Christians commenting here started loudly condemning Ray and dismissing him as beneath us? No, I see sympathy and love here. We understand that such a struggle would be very difficult. I should hope we’re broken over his fall. I encourage you to read my post which folllowed this one, it is linked to in comment #1. That is the problem here, we have lost sight of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. True love of our neighbor aims not to make him happy momentarily, but to seek his true and lasting good.
Blessings in Christ to you all,
Bob Hayton
The reconciliation of Scripture to homosexuality is the result of a liberal infection in the church. This is the new direction for Christianity, because anyone who stands up to it is called a hypocritical homophobe, as alluded in comment #5. Christians are backing down and letting the world run the church. A person CANNOT live a homosexual lifestyle and be Christian at the same time anymore than a child rapist can.
I pray the same. I was utterly shocked when I read about this.
Hi,
Very unfortunately, I had reached your blog because it appeared at the wordpress main menu. I just want to say that a true God, if he exists, would want happiness above all to their sons and daughters.
I am sad to realize that people who consider themselves as christians can have these kind of points of view.
I am sorry, but your post shows that you know nothing about God.
Sharpener,
So God exists to make us happy? Would anyone out here be happy if they could cheat on their wife a few times? Hey, we got to be happy, right? How about if we could rob a bank, shoot a few people, and get some money? That would be cool, right? And God’s okay with that.
More than arguing for a legitmacy of homosexuality, this approach argues for all kinds of self-serving wickedness.
This is not about whether or not our sin hurts another. It’s about whether it offends God and is wrong.
Again, God reveals his will in the Bible and it clearly says:
1 Cor. 6:9-11 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”
Notice that it doesn’t single out homosexuality as worse than other sins. Notice it doesn’t condemn all gay people to hell, since it holds out hope. “Such were some of you.” God can save anyone. But its not just unrepentant homosexual practice which God will judge. He will judge unrepentant adulterers, thieves, drunkards and even the greedy and idolatrous.
I’m sorry, but we can’t set up a make-believe God. We have to accept the Biblical revelation of who God is and what He teaches.
Hi,
no bad feelings, ok? I don´t want to hurt. Honestly, I respect your beliefs.
This being said… I had not realize that you structure your behaviour according to books that were written three thousand years ago. I find that weird. You follow all the book literally, then? Because, in that case (and I am not being ironic) do you sacrify a lamb when you want your sins to be forgiven? The bible says that.
My point is, do not interpret literally the bible, that´s what fundamentalists do.
OK. So then “your” God wants that homosexual to repress his sexual attraction for the rest of his life. He will suffer for the rest of life… but that is what God wants, right?
Honestly, that has nothing to do with my vision of God.
You say this:
“So God exists to make us happy? Would anyone out here be happy if they could cheat on their wife a few times? Hey, we got to be happy, right? How about if we could rob a bank, shoot a few people, and get some money? That would be cool, right? And God’s okay with that”.
All the things you say have nothing to do with happinness. All that behaviour is painful to man, therefore painful to God. The point is: two men (or two women) can love each other. They do not cause pain to each other. They cause pain to the rest of the people, who believe that is not right… and stigmatize them.
In fact, attitudes like this (suppressing sexuality) are exactly at the root of all the pain the cases of paedophilia have caused within Catholic Church (Benedict XVI condemns the paedophiles, and that is brave. But he does not address the root).
I am not going to argue with you. Just, please, be careful. In your blog you say that one of your goals is “Help people harmed by extreme fundamentalism”. You write as if you know God. I am sorry but that is fundamentalism. Please remember that you have “a” vision, ” a” point of view, a personal experience… of that God is, as I do have a different one.
Have a great day
Hi! Bob. Been a while since I posted here. Glad to see you and the fam are doing well.
This topic (Christians and Homosexuality) is like a big egg exploding in the microwave of the blogoshere this week. There are definitely 2 polar opposites in the positions displayed concerning this. And it really comes down (I’m sure you know) to those that hold to a literal interpretation and authority of the Scripture, and those that either deny it out right or eisegete some “monogamous homosexuality” that is blessed by God.
I will have to admit there have been some on the former side who showed a lack of gentleness when standing against this sin, but for the most part they all seem compassionate, but firm in wanting to obey what the Bible says in this circumstance. For what it means for them and for any “Christian” who embraces homosexuality.
The thing that shocks me is some of the more liberal stands agaisnt the Biblical world view actually come out and say that the Bible believers are the ones “going to Hell”, or of the Devil, etc. Do you think that this is endemic of being in danger of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit,
It reminds me of that passage in Isaiah somewhere…”Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
What do you think, or is this off topic? Ooops, hadn’t thought about that.
Mr Sharpener,
One more round.
I respect your opinion. And yes believing that God has revealed Himself to us in the Bible is a belief that is becoming ever more out of date. Fundamentalist for sure.
The Bible reveals what is sin in God’s eyes, not just the eyes of others. Does anyone care whether I am greedy in my heart? Do they care if I lust after pornography in the privacy of my home? Does anyone get offended if I drink myself crazy, and yet don’t offend others or endanger them when I’m drunk (by driving, etc.). Who cares if I curse God in my heart? Who cares if I blaspheme his name in private?
Were I to do these things, it would offend a Holy God, however.
Furthermore, there are things that we often feel are natural and that even can “feel right”. Yet they aren’t. Adultery, for instance. 2 adults can consensually come together sexually, and can keep it secret from the offended spouses, and they would often say it has to be right. It’s natural. It makes them happy.
In the case of consenting homosexuals, they may not be cheating on another partner or wife or husband. But they are still offending God by their actions. Scripture even teaches that pre-marital sex is forbidden too. What could be more natural than that?
The argument that this is natural, or that this feels right, or that God wouldn’t ask people to deny themselves doesn’t hold water. God calls all of us, who Biblically are predisposed to sin and enjoy sinning, to be holy. God calls us to not even lie or covet anything someone else has. Most of all the Bible calls it the worst sin when someone doesn’t love God with all their heart.
Many people think the Bible is this nice book about loving other people and being a nice boy. Sadly, they miss the fact that above all it is a story about a Holy God working to save fallen sinners. It’s a story of a crucified Savior dying to save those who without Him are totally lost. It is a beautiful yet terrible reality.
May God open your eyes to the light of the glorious Gospel,
Bob Hayton
WHo cares if he’s gay. It’s gross, but not a sin. Get you head out of your butt and go buy a Boltz album.
Sorry John, I am just now seeing your comment. Most of these comments are getting caught by my spam settings, which I don’t want to change. So far, for the record, I haven’t deleted one comment on this article. Of course I thought about deleting #17. We don’t have to just lash out at each other or anything.
It’s not really off topic. I think you have a point. I can’t say whether someone who’s legitimately born again can or cannot be wrong on this issue and still be obeying Scripture or not. I tend to think lots of wrong thinking is permitted. But Scripture seems pretty clear in the 1 Cor. passage I quoted, that a true Christian will not continually maintain a lifestyle of homosexuality. He may fall into it from time to time and repent. But like with any sin, we must be battling and killing it. We must be persevering in our faith and clinging to Christ.
On this issue I think we do tend to view the sin as more evil than other sins, and I don’t think we really have a warrant for doing that. Yes it was an “abomination” in the Old Testament, but so was someone who sows discord among the brethren, or someone who is proud. It is definitely a heated issue, and I hope people can understand that there are those of us who hold to an absolute moral standard. And whether we accept or like someone doesn’t matter when it comes to upholding the standard. We are wrong if we malign and truly persecute the homosexuals. But we are merely consistent with our beliefs if we affirm their humanity but still claim what they are doing is sin.
To clarify for anyone reading here, I am not in favor of a legalized ban of homosexual marriage or a ban of homosexuality, necessarily. I don’t think we should legislate Christianity. It doesn’t work and it makes people think that Christians are all about what we do or don’t do, and that we really want to impose our rules on everyone else. In fact, Christians are all about Jesus and his Love and want to share it with everyone else. That’s a little off topic here, but an important discussion which directly relates.
Thanks for stopping by John.
Bob
I agree about w/you about the legeslation part. Our Kingdom is not of this world. It’s a very fine line.
I think this news of Ray’s is not so much the focus of these discussions, so much as it has been a catalyst for getting people discussin the issue of homesexuality (again?)
Regarding the original post, I think a lot of Christians forget the strong stands that God says believers must unfortunately take against other believers at times. If I was a habitual unrepentant fornicator, the admonition is for others to not even eat with me. (I think it’s also interesting that it says ‘If any man IS CALLED a brother [KJV] and is doing sin#1, sin#2, sin#3, then some sort of discipline is commanded.
While I know all sin is sin and is the same to a certain degree, I wonder why the particular sins in that short list are labeled a such sins that would preclude ones inheritance into the Kingdom, no matter how “saved” the so-called brother says he is?
Any suggestions?
John,
I think partly it has to do with the particular location and circumstance Paul was addressing in that letter. We also have to compare other lists elsewhere in Scripture.
Clearly sin is not so much a problem of what but why. Sin is a rebellion against God’s control and is a matter of the heart. I believe cases like David and Bathsheba and the departure of John Mark (who later came back to active ministry), stand to show that a true believer can certainly struggle with sin — struggle with the what. But if he is a true believer, he still has the right overall trust / dependence in God. He still yearns to be more fully controlled by God and be more in alignment with God’s will.
Now certain sins are mentioned, and certain ones are more offensive both to man and God. But I’m not sure such lists are intended to give us a list of the major no-no’s to avoid. There’s a pretty serious list in Proverbs that includes the things God hates. One of them is gossip, another is pride.
Anyway good questions. I don’t know if I really have all the answers, but its good trying to think about them. Thanks for the interaction, brother.
Blessings in Christ,
Bob Hayton
Bob,
I haven’t commented in quite a while, but this post caught my attention. Maybe I really wasn’t expecting the news, I hadn’t heard.
All that said, I have enjoyed your insightfulness and wisdom in answering some of these posts.
Joshua C
Thanks Josh.
Bob, they’re called “trolls” for a reason. They are best ignored.
But I’m sure you already know that. 🙂
Yea, I figured…. But sometimes the trolls are speaking what a lot of people are thinking. In this case I had over 200 hits in one day from WordPress’ main page and so I thought the interaction was worthwhile.
Good to see you around.
Blessings,
Bob
What a sad situation with Boltz. I do hope the Christian world will pray for him and also exhort him. Remember that we are called to exhort one another when we see a brother in sin. Here’s a fictional conversation between Ray Boltz and Jesus…
http://shawnbarr.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/ray-boltz-talks-to-jesus/
i am shocked to hear about this but all i have to say he needs Jesus sin is sin and being gay is sin and the bible says that the wages for sin is death he has to repent and do this no more when we go before God we can bring no excuse it wont work and thats for all of us including me he has to change or hell is his final destination
I know I should give you phone contact:0716687781. I am travelling up country tomorrow out of net work,I will not be attending the cyber for some time.
I come from Nairobi Kenya Eastern Province,Kitui District, Ikanga sub-location,Yongela village from ALL Nations pentecostal church(PEFA).