Recently, ESPN.com highlighted a small Christian school that required their boys to wear pants, when playing basketball [HT: Seth McBee]. For a couple years when I was in high school, I encountered the same thing. Check out Seth’s post, or the original ESPN article for the entire interview, as I’m sure many of my readers will have had some firsthand experience with this kind of standard. Let me give an excerpt from the interview, and then my own reflection that I shared at Seth’s blog.
reporter: Please forgive my ignorance on this point, but is there a specific verse of the Bible that addresses this?
school principal: There is, but I’d have to look it up — I don’t have it handy, but it’s definitely in Scripture. And I don’t know if you know this, but our girls’ basketball team dresses in skirts. [And the school’s cheerleading squad wears long skirts.]
reporter: From a layman’s standpoint, it seems like maybe you’d want the girls to wear pants as well, so they wouldn’t show any skin. But I’m guessing you don’t want the girls wearing pants or dressing the same as the boys, right?
school principal: Yeah, because the Bible says there should be a separate distinction between a man and a woman in terms of their apparel, so that’s what it’s all about.
Okay, some are laughing right now. Some can’t imagine this. But the sense of loyalty to the standards of a strict fundamentalist school is quite strong. Consider my own reflections (shared at Seth’s blog).
That brings back memories for me! I was one of those long-pants-ers.
Our school ran about 50-70 or so and we had a very low budget, so we bought uniforms but didn’t order the shorts. The plan was to order them a few years later, or so we were told. So we played in warm-up pants.
But because of this we were able to play one or two other schools that would not play against any team that did not wear pants. We did have a cheer-leading squad and their skirts went down to the knee or below.
We were independent fundamental Baptists, not charismatics.
Looking back on it, we sure looked stupid. And they were uncomfortable.
The college I went to did not allow men to wear shorts except for in the gym, pretty much. Women had to wear skirts/dresses all the time (even in the dorms). And no, there is no verse in scripture about the shorts thing.
There was even a time I wouldn’t wear shorts in the dorm because I just wasn’t sure whether it was sinful or not to wear them.
Boy, God has brought me a long way! And opened my eyes to His grace along the way.
[Just] thought I’d just share my perspective on this interesting story!
Anyone else have any memories about anything similar to this?
I guess independent fundamentalists would be flipping if they came to Japan. There are plenty of guys wearing extremely short shorts to go running in, and probably more high school girls rolling up their skirts so that their entire thigh is exposed. Most of this is out of a need to “fit in” to society.
Somewhat off topic, but consuming alcohol is very much a part of culture here. There are people who can lose their job if they do not drink with their colleagues. This is why even Christians in Japan need to engage in such activities (God forbid!).
Sigh… Yes… At the church we left about a year ago they would have an annual memorial day picnic. As a man, I was required to wear jeans and just about boiled myself to death every year, but for staying in the shaded pavillion most of the time. Sometimes there were visitors who either didn’t know about or didn’t agree with the “long pants” rule, and we were all sure to glare at them so that they would know that they and their liberal dress codes were certainly not welcome with us.
Phil,
I know what you mean about “the glare”!
Crowned Fish,
It’s sad to what lengths people go to fit in. I do believe in modesty and there are limits, but I don’t think the limit is no shorts at all for men. As for alcohol, it is best not to damage one’s conscience. Personally, I think Scripture allows its moderate use, see my sidebar’s article under my favorite posts section on wine, or click on the category from my drop down menu for wine.
Blessings to you both,
Bob
Not wearing long enough pants leads to all kinds of things 🙂
Nobody believes the stories that I tell about growing up…
I enjoyed checking out your blog, Stuff Fundies Like. I’ve subscribed. Thanks for dropping by.
Yes, I remember as a student in grade school, high school and college, trying to play vollyball, take gymnastics, cheerlead and yes, even SWIM with long cuolottes or skirts. It was disasterous. Talk about immodest and dangerous! I can’t tell you how many times my foot got caught in the hem of the long cuolottes when I jumped to spike a ball, only to fall flat on my backside bringing the cuolottes up to my neck. Nope, not modest. And-one part of modesty in my opinion is not drawing attention to oneself. We could not do that with those culturally abnormal clothes. Everyone stared at us when we showed up for gymnastics and swimming classes at the Y. Also, for games, if another team came to play and didn’t know the rules, they were escorted off the campus or given pairs of cuolottes or long skirts in which to dress before we could play them. How, unloving and certainly not spiritually edifying! The other ironny was that some of the long skirts were so straight that there had to be a kick split in order to walk in them, so a little piece of fabric was sewn in ot keep it “modest” as people waddled around tripping over the extra fabric.
I agree, culottes were definitely not modest during most activities. What made it worse was girls somehow thought wearing culottes let them sit however they wanted to. They thought it made them modest by default.
Wow Bob. I remember those days. I left FundyWorld several years ago and am now at BBC in Mpls. The idiocy of those rules, and the pride they engendered in those who kept them religiously destroys hearts. My kids play schools in sports with some of those rules and, trying to be objective, the overall spiritual atmosphere of those schools is nil. The sports excitement is out of this world at those schools, and the tempers lost at games by many of their players far exceeds those from schools that allow kids to grow their hair long and girls to wear jeans.
Like most of you, I don’t see a problem with boys wearing modest shorts (and today’s basketball shorts are definitely modest!).
That said, I would just admonish each of you to be careful in your judgment of other brothers and sisters in Christ who may be sincerely following to the best of their ability what they believe to be Biblical modesty. We should never ridicule those among us who hold to a higher Biblical standard than us. Disagree with them if you wish, but if anything, they should be respected for their willingness to dress in what equates to a culturally unpopular way solely because of conviction.
I believe we do need to be careful not to mock fellow believers. However, such rigorous adherence to non-scriptural rules has can have severe consequences. It often fosters a dangerous legalism and encourages a misconception of true Christianity. Several of my fellow pants-wearing Christians, are not following Christ much, if at all, at present.
Bob,
Thanks for dropping by again. Maybe we’ll bump into one another one of these days. I go to the north campus but will soon be transitioning to a Bethlehem sponsored church plant in St. Paul.
Blessings in Christ,
Bob
Bob, first of all, just because several of your fellow pants-wearing Christian friends are not following Christ much at all does not mean that ALL conservative dressing Christians are in that same camp. I know many who are sincere followers of Christ.
Secondly, I think it improper that the “legalism” word is often brought out as an attack on conservative standards. Legalism, as defined by the scriptures, involves the religious following of various rules and regulations in order to gain merit with God, i.e. to be saved (see Galatians 2-3). These folks are not dressing conservatively in order to be saved or gain some merit with God. Most are doing so simply out of a desire to live holy lives before a holy God. I am certain they would tell you this.
Lastly, please remember that we all have standards, or at least I hope we do. Surely there is a point at which you believe an article of clothing would be too tight or too high (or low), right? Hopefully our standards and judgments are based on God’s Word. So what makes your standard different from those about whom you write? Obviously there is a difference of Biblical interpretation and application at play here.
As a personal example, I do not allow my wife or daughters to wear pants (or shorts). I believe I have a solid, Biblical basis for this, though I fully understand that you may not agree with my interpretation/viewpoint. It’s something we do simply to honor the Lord. We do not boast or act superior to others because of this. We’re simply doing our best to honor the Lord in our apparel as we strive to do in every other area of our lives, and I would hope, as a fellow Christian, you would not ridicule or deride me because of this.
Well, I have rambled enough for tonight, and bed is calling.
May God bless you,
Scott
Scott,
I respect your position, and can understand where you are coming from.
At one time I would have denied any legalism charge vehemently. My mother has the same position regarding skirts vs. pants, and I chose my wife based on that same premise. It was not easy for her and I to change our views and practice on the subject.
Legalism is all about earning status with God. It’s about relating to Him on the basis of our performance. The most blatant legalism is a legalistic justification. But legalistic sanctification is more subtle and equally dangerous. Just because someone has a standard doesn’t mean they are legalistic in their heart. But if that standard is a personal application of Scripture, I encourage people to judge their hearts and see if in some sense they feel they are pleasing God more than other people who don’t have that same standard.
My wife and I both, now that we have left extreme fundamentalism, can see so plainly the great amount of legalism we once participated in. Many others that we know can as well. In my heart of hearts, I really did think that people who didn’t practice like me were not really serious about God, didn’t love Him as much as I did. I really thought my high standards of conduct and obedience to what I thought was His will for me (lots of work done for His church), was ensuring that I was “right with God”. When I kept all the rules and did all the work, I was happy with myself and could hold my head up at Sunday services. When I fell behind in my devotions, and my heart ached under the strain of trying to keep up all the works I was doing externally, I was conflicted on the inside and would try to follow the counsel of the preaching: “just grit your teeth and do it”. I would come forward and rededicate myself to God. I would have a hard time holding my head up as I talked to God.
In all of this a constant application of the gospel of grace was missing. I viewed salvation as kind of a get-out-of-jail-free card that I received when I asked God to save me as a young boy. Salvation and the gospel were past tense, but definitely worth thanking God about all the time. And that work of salvation was so wonderful that it surely obligated me to sacrificial service in the present. But as for how to apply the gospel in the process of sanctification, I was lost.
Believing in Jesus is not a mere mental assent to a set of truths, it is a continual day-by-day trust that God accepts me not on my own merit, but on the basis of the pure Son of God’s atoning sacrifice on my behalf. As a child of God, I have access with confidence to God’s throne because of Jesus. If I fail my own conscience and if I perform less than my best, I need to be reminded that Jesus didn’t save me because of my efforts. I need to be impacted again with the glory and wonder of the Gospel and believe anew with fresh vigor.
Rather than being encouraged to look inside myself for strength to “toe the line”, and rather than scaring me with my need to just “get right with God” and calling for me to come forward and make some more effort spiritually to arrive, somehow at a place where living the Christian life if fulfilling, easy and natural… instead of that approach, I need to be reminded of Jesus’ sacrificial death on my behalf. I am accepted because of Jesus. If I need to be encouraged to do right, I should remember the cost of my salvation and remember that God has given us the spirit to help us grow. I should be given confidence that Jesus is at work in us and is shaping us into His image. I need to be pointed to the cross when I feel guilty, not into some kind of personal spiritual renewal ritual.
The whole focus of the vast majority of churches maintaining this kind of rigorous standard based lifestyle argues against a gracious, Christ-focused existence. At the end of the day, many of the people struggling to keep the rules, do so out of a sense of duty and a misunderstanding of their gracious acceptance in Christ. This, I’m afraid is legalism.
I don’t imply that everyone in this system is not saved. Or that even the majority of them aren’t. But their legalistic approach at the least can allow for some to be lost, and many more to be stunted in their spiritual growth.
I do wish the best for you Scott. I trust this isn’t your experience. I’m just explaining where I’m coming from in using such a charged term.
Blessings in Christ,
Bob Hayton
Scott – wanted to comment on your quotes.
” We should never ridicule those among us who hold to a higher Biblical standard than us.”
” I do not allow my wife or daughters to wear pants (or shorts). I believe I have a solid, Biblical basis for this, though I fully understand that you may not agree with my interpretation/viewpoint. It’s something we do simply to honor the Lord. We do not boast or act superior to others because of this.”
What we wear is important, however the legalism comes when the rules rule. I don’t think using the term Legalism is unfounded in this pants/dresses conversation. As humans, we get caught up in the details and we miss the point often times and we say we must wear a dress always – well why? never gets asked or answered.
What I noticed in your comments is that you in fact do boast and think you are superior or more mature than other christians, you even said it yourself when you said we shouldn’t ridicule others who have a higher Biblical standard – implying that the dresses only crowd are better, they have a higher standard and therefore are closer to sanification, closer to god.
You may not think you are acting superior but you may infact feel more christian because of this nice rule that you can rely on to feel more holy. This is adding to the gospel of christ that he alone is responsible for our holiness. There is nothing I can “put on” that will make me holy. I am a wretched sinner though forgiven.
Have you ever considered that this rule your family adheres to perhaps might make you feel more superior, because you are really – you are in the know, more mature, more modest than the others, as if there is a pecking order in christ’s famiily.
Now I am not trying to say you don’t have good motives, I am just trying to ask the question why in every setting is a dress the choice that would honor god? Now obviously people will come up with their own convictions on this issues, but how is one conviction better/holier than another?
Consider Galations 2:12-13 “12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.”
I think our extra rules we make are because we really don’t like the fact that there is nothing we can do to win god’s favor.. impossible.- we don’t really like that we can’t control god, but even though we know that from the scripture, we still try with our extra biblical mandates.
The other thing I noticed about your quotes was that you made this rule for your wife and daughters – as if you can dictate their holiness – why is it your rule for them if they are wearing a dress to honor God, how can you judge their heart – perhaps they are wearing a dress to honor you.
Just some food for thought – Dresses are fine,lovely, but not when your skiing or biking or playing basketball – God is not as simple as we like to make him – and if we wear a dress or jeans it doesn’t change our sinful heart.
Well said. This has often been my feeling on reformation view, or what some would scornfully characterize as “those calvinists” …I think the reason the reformed (which is Biblical) is so hated is because it gives no room, place, or chance for man to get ANY glory.
And like eliza said: “we really don’t like the fact that there is nothing we can do to win God’s favor” I’m a woman, but the nature of one of my jobs (an inspector) it would be impractical & unsafe for me to wear a dress or skirt to the construction site I’m inspecting. Even if I’m just doing a residential site inspection, I want my legs covered to protect any debris, insects, or whatever I don’t want to get on my skin.
Having said that, I LOVE wearing dresses and prefer them simply because it’s feminine and I LOVE being a woman. Besides, it does honor God I believe since He created us male and female…what I mean by that? It honors God, not makes us more “righteous” or “holy” in His sight. After all, He’s God. He can “use” a donkey, or rock to cry out if He wants.
Just my two cents, ya’ll
Great comments all.
Dear Eliza,
This is Scott’s wife, Diane. Scott thought that it might be helpful if I responded to your post regarding women’s attire.
Although my daughters and I wear dresses or skirts only, we do not do so for the reasons you intimated in your post. We do not feel that wearing dresses makes us holier than anyone else, but we do believe we are obeying Scripture. And by obeying Scripture, we are demonstrating our love for the Lord. Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments†(John 14:15). It is not legalism when Christians try to obey the commands of Scripture.
Throughout the Bible, we find the principle of distinction between the sexes. At creation, God gave men and women different roles in the family. In the New Testament, he gave them different roles in the church. He even prescribed different hair styles for them (1 Corinthians 11:14-15). In Deuteronomy 22:5, God directs that men and women shall dress differently. He says, “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.†Whatever the clothing styles were in the Old Testament, it is apparent that men’s and women’s clothing were different; otherwise, this commandment would have no meaning.
Deuteronomy 22 is a collection of miscellaneous laws given to Israel. Verse 5, however, has universal application because God says that “all that do so (cross-dress) are an abomination unto the Lord.†The word “all†can have several meanings, but the context here indicates that it means “everyone,†regardless of nationality. Some believe that cross-dressing was associated with sexual ceremonies performed as part of pagan worship. It is also believed that some pagan religions required men and women to exchange clothing as part of fertility rites. While we may not know exactly what the heathen were doing in those days, it is clear that cross-dressing was a part of it, and God said it was an abomination to Him.
If you look up Deuteronomy 22:5 in commentaries, you will find disagreement among good men on exactly what this verse means. We believe we have interpreted it in a way that is consistent with the whole of Scripture concerning the distinction between men and women. We agree with Matthew Henry, who wrote: “”The distinction of sexes by the apparel is to be maintained, for the preservation of our own and our neighbor’s chastity. Some think it refers to the idolatrous custom of the Gentiles: in the worship of Venus, women appeared in armor, and men in women’s clothes. It forbids the confusing of the dispositions and affairs of the sexes. Probably this exchange of garments had been used to gain opportunity of committing uncleanness, and is therefore forbidden.” We view Deuteronomy 22:5 as a command from God that men should not wear women’s clothing and women should not wear men’s clothing.
You took great exception to my husband using the phrase “higher Biblical standard.†The word “higher†means “exceeding above the normal or average level,†and it is properly applied to a standard that reaches beyond the average in scope. There is nothing in the word “higher†that implies “holier.â€
I do want to address one other comment you made. You wrote: “The other thing I noticed about your quotes was that you made this rule for your wife and daughters – as if you can dictate their holiness – why is it your rule for them if they are wearing a dress to honor God, how can you judge their heart – perhaps they are wearing a dress to honor you.†Ephesians 5:22-24 state that the husband is the head of the home, and his wife is to be submissive to him. Ephesians 6:1 says that children are to obey their parents. In the area of dress, my daughters and I are submitting to my husband’s authority as required by Scripture.
Of course, you may disagree with our interpretation of Scripture, but please do not impute to us a “holier-than-thou†attitude or suggest that we feel “more superior†than other Christians. We are merely trying to obey the Scriptures as we interpret them.
It is my experience in the world of IFBx that many, NOT all, feel holier than thou when they adhere to strict dress standards. I have seen more than my share of glares cast towards women who would dare wear pants. I even have witnessed a pastor refuse to speak to women, in any setting, if she was dressed in pants. I was sitting by my father’s death bed when his IFBx pastor came. The pastor gave a glance towards me, noticed I was in pants, then directed all conversation towards my mother who was in a skirt. Even when I spoke directly to the pastor, he looked to my mother as if she spoke and not me. My father was dying, and this man couldn’t even “lower” himself to speak to me. At my father’s funeral, he did speak to me….I was in a dress.
If a woman wishes to only wear pants because she feels it is the right thing to do, I am 100% behind her decision. The problems begins when others decide for others how they should dress. IE- pastors who feel they can tell the whole church what is and isn’t acceptable attire for HIS church members. Also when others decide that they are better, more holier than others who do not conform to mans image.
No one can deny that fact that some churches are full of holier than thous due to their “higher” dress standard. We all know of churches who ‘ban” fellowship with others churches who allow women to wear pants. I have family members all around me who constantly judge my family on what we wear, how long our sons hair is etc….ever heard the song “If There’s hair on Your Ears, There’s sin in Your Heart’?
One can change the title to,”If There’s thigh showing, there’s Sin in Your Heart”, “If There’s a Slit in Your Skirt, There’s Sin in Your Heart”, etc.
That is the attitude of many IFBxers. I know, I use to be one.
No one is saying it is wrong for a woman to have her own dress standards. The issue lies with her or her husbands motive and how they look upon others who don’t share there views.
There’s obviously a lot of emotion tied to this issue. I’ve seen stories similar to what Sandra is describing (it always grieves me to hear about stuff like that).
Scott and Diane, I have to admit I, too, was guilty of understanding Scott’s remark about “higher Biblical standards” to be making a value judgment about how it was “better” or “holier” than the implied “lower” standards of the other believers here. Maybe to avoid miscommunications like that in the future, better wording would be, “more rigorous” or even just “different Biblical standards”, if that is, indeed, what was meant. I think we can all agree with the statement, “We should never ridicule those among us who hold to a different Biblical standard than us.” (see Romans 14)