A headline from USA Today grabbed my attention this weekend: “Religious family abandons U.S., gets lost at sea.” Yep, you don’t see that one every day. It feeds right into the media frenzy about Christians being crazy freaks. But that isn’t how I was thinking about this news item. Let me quote from the article before I give my thoughts.
A northern Arizona family that was lost at sea for weeks in an ill-fated attempt to leave the U.S. over what they consider government interference in religion will fly back home Sunday.
Hannah Gastonguay, 26, said Saturday that she and her husband “decided to take a leap of faith and see where God led us” when they took their two small children and her father-in-law and set sail from San Diego for the tiny island nation of Kiribati in May….
Hannah Gastonguay said her family was fed up with government control in the U.S. As Christians they don’t believe in “abortion, homosexuality, in the state-controlled church,” she said.
U.S. “churches aren’t their own,” Gastonguay said, suggesting that government regulation interfered with religious independence.
Among other differences, she said they had a problem with being “forced to pay these taxes that pay for abortions we don’t agree with.”
The Gastonguays weren’t members of any church, and Hannah Gastonguay said their faith came from reading the Bible and through prayer.
“The Bible is pretty clear,” she said….
Hannah Gastonguay said the family will now “go back to Arizona” and “come up with a new plan.”
This family’s foolish escapade provides the perfect illustration of the “martyr complex” that seems quite prevalent among American Christians.
Christians think we have it so rough in America. It is unjust that the government permits homosexual marriage or allows abortions. The government requires building permits and safety codes, and encroaches on our liberties in other ways, too. What makes this especially difficult is the perception that America was once a truly Christian nation.
Now, I’m not trying to belittle abortion and the marriage issue. These are important concerns. But do you think that Paul and the early Christians might not have chafed at the treatment they received from the hands of Nero? Were there calls for Christians to vacate Rome? Now, in the face of actual persecution with actual deaths and severe punishments being meted out, I definitely think we have to allow for the “get out of Dodge” option. But American Christians today, for the most part, know nothing of that sort of real persecution.
The mention of persecution, however, brings up a great point. Jesus promised us that in the world we would “have tribulation” (John 16:33). He said we would be “hated by all for [His] name’s sake” (Matt. 10:22). Paul promised us that “through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). The word wasn’t to flee for your lives but to stay and “endure to the end.”
It is far easier to set our hopes in a Christian “Geneva,” so to speak. To aim for a “holy huddle till the rapture,” and find solace in a counter-culture society that some might call a cult. It’s easier if everyone you have to interact with thinks like you do, and looks like you do. That’s much nicer than having to deal with the ugly realities of being a light in a dark world. It’s easier to tuck tail and run. But we aren’t called to that. We are called to: “be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom [we are to be shining] as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life” (Phil. 2:15-16).
I don’t have time to more fully develop these thoughts, so I’ll encourage you to read other similar posts on this topic. But while I’m at it, what are your thoughts on this question? Do you feel the urge to hunker down and hide? Is that right or wrong? Am I too harsh on this poor family from Arizona?
While there are Biblical cases to be made for this or that action in the face of persecution, I think that the key word here is persecution. There might be, at most, some small pressures making Christians feel uncomfortable in this society, but as of yet, no persecution in any meaningful sense.
As for hunkering down and hiding, awaiting “the rapture,” I cannot agree to this in any way, shape, or form. I believe the Great Commission will be fulfilled in space-time, and my eschatology is more optimistic in its view of the progression of Christ’s kingdom in time and on earth. It’s not my intent to debate eschatology here, but many people’s eschatology is defeatist in nature, and leads precisely to this sort of “bail out and wait for the rapture” mentality.
All power in heaven and earth is our Lord’s. As such, we are to go and advance his kingdom, in the face of whatever, not huddle up in impotence, waiting for extraction.
This short poem sums it up for me:
My Orders
My orders are to fight;
Then if I bleed, or fail,
Or strongly win, what matters it?
God only doth prevail.
The servant craveth naught
Except to serve with might.
I was not told to win or lose,–
My orders are to fight.
~Ethelwyn Wetherald
Thanks, Justin. Great thoughts. I agree that eschatology might shape this in some people, and I have a more hopeful eschatology as well. Great poem by the way.
Blessings…
Bob
Fundamentalism tends to be an isolationist movement characterized by “not”: Not i n the public schools, NOT in the secular colleges, NOT in groups like Toastmasters or other neighborhood-type groups.
Have you ever considered the the calendar of the typical fundamentalist church is intentional. There is little time left to do anything else.
The uber-fundamentalist longs to work for the fundamentalist organization because even that gets him ‘out of the world’.
Isolationism is not what the Lord intended: “I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-11) AND “I do not pray that You should take them out of the world” (John 17:11,15).
Some may feel, based on a few of Jesus’ statements regarding last days, that they must (1) prepare their ark for their family, (2) leave Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of their children to be properly raised apart from the smut that is daily a part of the new American way. Further some may seek to bring a testimony against the worldly and satanic lifestyle (3) as Abraham was called to do in leaving Ur or (4) perhaps in some way even as the Israelites were to do in destroying the pagan, abortionist cities in Canaan during the time of Joshua.
Now the first three godly examples seem to be similar in ways to this dear families rationale in my opinion.
“Christians think we have it so rough in America. It is unjust that the government permits homosexual marriage or allows abortions…”
If it is unjust as you say, and America is supposed to abide by the constitution and “We the People” are the ones who must hold our government responsible for it, then I say we need MANY families to stop, cry aloud and show my people their transgressions, by varied means. If it is true that the 501c3 status has stopped otherwise good preachers from speaking out against the unjust and horrific slaughter of more souls than at any time in recorded history I think you are wholly mistaken.
Each of us must take a stand against the unjust, unrighteous, hideous evil that the income tax dollars go toward. It is not that we have it rough, it is that our children and especially the lost deceived will have it rough on the judgment day if we do not stand against unjust-ness. Unrighteousness is truly a tragedy.
We do not seek a Geneva, we seek that heavenly Jerusalem. Here we have no continuing city but we seek one to come. Here we are pilgrims and we are salt and light, one way or another. Don’t persecute this poor family by pretending to be their judge my brother! Praise their motives and increase your crying aloud against the sin in the churches and America, please.
Thanks! Pilgrim Roy
Actually the american church (really all religious organizations in the US including the RC church, Mormons, etc) is highly favored by the Federal, State, and Local governments.
Let me count the ways: 1.) Exempt from property taxes; 2.) The Pastoral housing allowance; 3.) Deductibility of charitable donations.
The first century church had none of these advantages. AND, while I have not done a study on this topic, I suggest that few countries favor religious organizations to the extent the US does.
Some might benefit (I don’t feel I need this exercise) from cultural immersion in a Muslim country for a year or more. Try taking your tax deduction there!
Sorry, I disagree, totally. Worldly wealth, and esp. 501c3 status for just one false “blessing,” has caused innumerable churches (with their leadership) in my experience to not be politically active, to be unrighteously at ease in Zion. And not even to try and influence legistlation, etc. at the state levels, or become officers, AND usually not even at the city levels or on the board of schools! for the cause of just and noble purposes in modern America.
Contrariwise, the Proverbs 31 husband is not only allowed but encouraged by his wife’s virtue to sit in the gate and participate in the government and “policies” of the city. Where are those virtuous women pushing their husbands forward into “politics,” law and other city councils for the sake of the family?…. Where?
It is a sad day all across America as pew sitters linger at the church enjoying themselves and do not get busy in their own streets and all the way up to the federal level to fight against the unconstitutional, anti-biblicist, socialist, one-worldism and communist agendas – in the public schools, in the marketplace of commercialism, in the medical strategies with drugs, etc. and especially at the federal level where checks and balances, limited government and original intent of forefathers are all mocked and counterfeited.
I want no “financial” advantages for the church. “Its all about the economy stupid” shows how stupid the church is. Grrr!
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” – and for not discerning the times and by means of the “fear of the Lord.”
Persecution is a blessing Jesus says! Rejoice in it! But that means one has to stick his neck out for righteous causes. . . . Get involved in just bills and statewide campaigns to elect Godly statesman to office. . . .
Pilgrim Roy
Do you really want your church to be “politically active”?
Yes Jim.
Either you and I have a different paradigm or we have different definitions. Perhaps you can instruct me, if you feel I am out of line, or misinterpreting Romans below.
For me this family’s decision has nothing to do with eschatalogy and everything to do with Jesus’ ethic of serving the least ones. I believe we must forget ourselves, forget where the chips may fall, or where one thinks they might or will fall (eschatologically,) forget ourselves and simply “do right.”
I must live for the least ones, and for my children, as I trust do you. Don’t you? I seek to give them the privilege our pastors of yesteryear (esp. of the founding days of this country with their church men) the privilege to worship and grow in grace without interference, in liberty as God should so allow.
The reason of course is so that they too will be well prepared for the battle for the souls of men…. not battles over borders and battles over economics and world empires.
Are you saying that you do not want to be politically active in your church for the country? That amazes me if so. Maybe you think that all of politics is unjust: but then I would say get involved so some of it isn’t – and be persecuted if need be. Take a stand for what you say you believe in and what the authority of Jesus’ blood purchased – our interaction with the world for the glory of God as I was happy to see: John 17!
Let’s see, how many AME churches has Hillary spoken at so far in the last ten years?
You intrigue but also perplex me. Do you disagree with my analysis of that wonderful motive to have a virtuous wife, so as to have her godly husband “sit at the gate?” Wouldn’t that thrill your wife if she had freed you up so you can objectively pursue righteous goals and laws in your city? Are you helping prepare some men in your church to sit on the City Council, even if you have not felt it was God’s will for you to do? (Not trying to be nosy, only suggest in part what I think has happened to destroy America.)
I would to God our churches were stacked with virtuous women pushing their husbands and sons to get involved in the political arena! America ceases to be great when America ceases to be good it was said. And I say America ceases to be good when her church men (particularly her goldy men) cease to be politically involved.
When righteousness prevails in a country that nation is blessed by God and the Gospel is seen – lifestyle evangelism becomes profound and people hate and despise the influence of Godliness for a time… So that is where persecution comes into play. Only faith brings righteous living and that is what the youth in America desperately need in my estimation, but do not even have to think about any more now that America’s men are more interested in sports and “churching” than in righteousness and teaching the youth about God and justice.
How about you?
Did John the Baptist lose his head wrongly? His advice in the political arena, nay his cry to the governor about his personal life really was political AND just at the same time, and so he was condemned. How is that different from having a network of ten thousand churches all congregate to go to the President and say he is enacting law illegally and that his Obamacare – with its home visitations etc. etc. is absolutely opposing family order ordained by God? Or we could go to Washington and do something extraordingary, lets say, Abortion will now end, or we will not go back to work? Ever.
Why should not every pastor in your city get together and call for righteousness, and take it one step at a time. Anything wrong with that? There are hundreds of unrighteous causes to choose one from to get started. But alas I bet most of the pastors in your town, whereever it is are all seminary trained, 501c3 and certain that such a thing is both “illegal” as well as horribly distractive from their call to . . . whatever it is.
The theme of Romans lived out in truth brings glory to God. This is a key purpose for the good news and specifically calls for men die to self to live out the good news: the “just ones live by faith!”: righteousness delights God, but “sin is a reproach to any people.” All of these things I believe to the whole point: the salvation of souls. “Obedience to the faith” is God’s desire in Romans 1 and Romans 16, not verbal assent and intellectual soliloquoy (like preaching to the choir).
Well thanks for listening to this onslaught of questions, I do hope that in some small way they get you thinking again. Cheers! Only a little more time and King Jesus’ returns!
Pilgrim Roy
Posted as a Filing on Sharper Iron here
Thanks Jim.
That is to say, we must think the best about their efforts dear brother, the sacrifices they make and reputation they earn.
They left the comforts and “relative” safety of their home, spent probably many additional dollars. Why? I would like to think it is because they hate what is happening and wish to show their family and others that America is truly becoming an abomination to God and they would rather live in some place but in the midst of sin, debauchery and deception.
I don’t know how much “soul-winning” they were doing literally, or how much you are doing for that matter, but I think this is a great, very very great testimony to the world in a way few do. You have your way of testifying and they theirs. I hope they use that attention wisely. But I will not operate off of hear-say in my consideration (judgment) of them, or of their statements in part, or out of context (not to say you have taken them out of context per se).
On the other side I hope to meet them and congratulate them! And I trust God will reward them for being a “peculiar people,” a people “called out” and who show they truly are “strangers and pilgrims” in this world, while seeking to make this clear and pointed statement for themselves and all believers as I believe they were seeking, by faith, to do.
Were they not seeking to, “Be separate,” “come out of her my people,” if not literally then spiritually and even “ecclesiastically” where necessary!
Sorry for the second post, just had to give my truer, fuller feelings. Thanks again for bringing up this issue! It is such an important one as the day grow very dark and we get to shine our light!
In Christ, Roy
Pilgrim Roy,
I appreciate your zeal – and you are right that we don’t know a lot about their motives truly, as this is just a few snippets of an interview. I’m using what USA Today has meant to show us of their motives as an example. Whether or not that really is their motive, it doesn’t affect my argument.
Standing up for right and preaching the truth is different than tucking tail and running. America is becoming an abomination to God – but so is virtually every other nation in this world – all are evil in different ways and none is “holy” and set apart for God.
We are pilgrims in this world, and the days when ostensibly, America was a “Christian nation” which welcomed persecuted pilgrims from other countries into its holy streets — those days are long gone, and they are an exception rather than the norm. The norm for the Christian church has been periods of intense persecution for its beliefs, and pressure to change its ways to accommodate cultural and political situations. That norm is returning to America – but we are a far way off from the worst examples of this harsh environment.
The example you gave about Abraham leaving Ur doesn’t apply since there was a direct call from God, and God was working with a political entity – Israel (or what would become Israel). Destroying the Canaaninte cities – that too doesn’t apply to our situation – I hope you agree. Jesus said to put up the sword in the Garden of Gethsemane, and true Christianity has not been advanced by the sword or used it for personal gain, ever since. Fleeing Sodom and Gomorrah provided a picture and was a literal reality in a very unique situation. It doesn’t apply to America today.
This family can feel called and feel like they are standing up by running – but their stated desire to escape pollution and corruption, flies in the face of Jesus’ warning and his prayer in John 17 (as Jim pointed out earlier).
Thanks for the interaction, though. And we can agree to disagree on this point. I agree there are some good points to their thought process and we do need to stand against sin, but isolation and emigration is not the answer, Biblically.
Blessings in Christ,
Bob Hayton
Harsh … but the boat people acted foolishly!
Thank you for your thoughts:
“America is becoming an abomination to God – but so is virtually every other nation in this world – all are evil in different ways and none is “holy” and set apart for God.”
Yes, exactly!
Yes I concur, but much moreso with the first line than the importance of the rest. We Americans ARE becoming an “abomination.” Whoa, is that true? That is a very heavy word in Hebrew as I am sure you understand Bob! But beyond this we have crossed the line if homosexuality, abortion and other things are specifically an abomination to God and we are “allowed” to have them in this country.
That would mean He has given us up, as a nation, wouldn’t it?
If we look at Revelations there is a set of priorities in God’s mind regarding those who lead the way into “abominations,” true?
Those who are Babylonish, if not Babylon and whorish fiscally, internationally, sexually, etc. are the ones who will be fallen, fallen. . . .
I grew up in Brooklyn and ministered there later. We went across the Narrows and saw up and down the Manhattan Avenues “The Capital of the World” banners on light posts way back in the mid-Nineties. It was on that basis that I told the Children as we, in the moving van crossed the final time the Verrazano Bridge, “look one last time to the Manhattan skyline, [and I recall choosing my words carefully] you may never see that skyline the same again” – and a few years later 9-11 tore it down, as we suspected would happen, but not so soon and not so amazingly opposing laws of physics as it did.
I say that to invite the notion that God does of course work in the affairs of men as Revelations clearly states, and allows evil men (like Sennacharib) to do their most villainous work – and that influential evil cities are certainly judged much more severely than others, are they not?
Maybe they have nude beaches in some more private European cities, but is it not NYC (and Californian cities) and the America system and “liberties” that has led the whole world into X-rated movies and pornography, financial bankruptcy (by carefully designed thievery and a system of money that is debt based, a “false balance”), etc. etc.
Maybe you have not paid as close attention to America characteristics and the Book of Revelations, America and the One World Order, America and Occultism on the Rise Internationally, America and . . . you get the picture I’, sure.
But I would strongly suggest you reconsider some of your statements which we do not have time to deal with completely. But just look at Abraham, David, the Israelites, Jesus Christ.
Is not one of the greatest of Messianic prophecies, “Out of Egypt have I called my Son?….” It is a great one for me. Its right up there with the prophecy about Bethlehem Ephratah and the virgin birth for its amazing quality of unlikeliness.
Yet is that not what God is always calling us brother, some he calls literally and others figuratively, but all are called out of Egypt. This is truly the most reprehensible concept to the public media, whether literal or figurative, is it not?
Some Christians succeed at it, others fail, but the only ones that deserve attention are those who try and try again. Our discussion Sunday was about the Rich man and Lazarus. In this life Lazarus truly had incredible trouble despite the fact that he was a literal ptoxos, beggar – Jesus FIRST beatitude is based on the exact image of Lazarus in the “poor in spirit” ptoxos in Greek. Yet he was called from this life into Abraham’s bosom, for he like Abe was obviously a man of faith though despised, even as your “flee America!” family!
Abraham was called, in his day, from a NYC styled territory AND mentality both. UR was the place to be and the families were all there. I do not like overreaction or shooting from the hip. Please stop and review the scenario brother. Abe was called out of Ur clearly on purpose. And many would say he was a failure. He had not left alone, he was in deserts, became a nomad, his wife was confused and followed him (she should have divorced him, fool!).
How is that different from his children, the Israelites who later left Egypt and still desiring the culinary herbs of the place wandered, failing to enter the promised land, even as this fine family seems to have failed in men’s eyes, but I say in God’s eyes they are jewels!
Maybe they too had their moments of doubt, their Kadesh Barnea, but they have shown the world the way of humiliation, of poverty of spirit, of hatred of a system that is already under a curse from God I say as homosexuality now is okay in this American system because so few men took a stand and fell as necessary to stop the likes of Ellen Degeneres and the Boy Scouts, the Harvard preacher and the United Methodists, and the list goes on and on.
I lay this at the feet of the many false preachers, who preach peace, peace when there is no peace. Someone needs to cry out against the sinning, specficially, in America. But preachers are afraid to speak out and take a stand against Obamacare for one instance in thousands in the last decades. They are IRS certified and therefore have had help in getting their tithes as long as their IRS status is not revoked…
Homosexuality is the most obvious curse of all if one takes Romans 1 literally, I believe.
America is now going off the cliff at race car speed whereas decades ago it was only accelerating slowly at first, going through the gear changes til recently it was doing the speed limit. But now the God of heaven I believe is letting us do the NASCAR thing over the edge and so I say, I wish to look up this family and see thier FULL story and thought process and thank them for being so bold, daring and, and and, yeah, stupid. Ha.
God loves stupidity in a sense.
Jesus was stupid from the natural perspective and went, not to a far away land, but to the cross, the cross. Think of it Bob, was it not lunacy. Wonder what the presses would be reporting about Him? Great man heals many but cannot help himself!
Right?… He could have called ten thousand angels but he made an exodus from this life for reasons even his disciples in that day could not conceive though he had even told them so. Do you not agree?
Is it not possible that this family has pure motives. Is it not possible that they were sure that God was asking them to do the Abrahamic thing? Whether right or not, their life is not over, their chapter in history is not written. I wish to think well of them, not question their motives.
Maybe they have even said things wrong ( I do not know that,) but I do know from the little I have heard that I have a very high regard for them. I believe they are wiser than many. nay MOST non-activists in this country.
They were in the world but not of it, but even as there comes a time for folks to flee, flying from youthful lusts as Paul enjoins, when it starts to be a temptation to oneself or to his loved ones, then he retires to a quieter place – in the world – and seeks to sanctify himself for God as Peter teaches. From the little I read they seem to have met their limit of hate for this country’s demoralizing and empowering of cowardice among those who should be strong in the Lord.
I repeat, we are a peculiar people, are we not, in the very way? We ARE pilgrims, and there are very few of us left. We ARE nomads in this world, which is why Abraham and his sons were despised by the world, and so we too. Our allegiance is to that coming City of God, and the Church, the called out ones, now..
Certainly no one is delusional any more. This family is not trying to hide away. There is no where to hide, except under the protection of the shadow of the cross my brother. We both agree on that I am sure! So thanks for considering my poor thoughts.
Or maybe the family is delusional. Many people think you and I are too. We actually believe in a latter rain in my family, and by the sounds of it you may also agree that God is bringing on a revival. Either way, we may move or not, whatever we believe to be the will of the Lord Jesus.
I hope to read more about these folks and find them to be fleeing so as to save their family and morals, so as to glorify God. And by doing so I hope others will stop and say, there go those crazy Christians again, as if they can’t make peace with evil all around them. No, some of us have to speak up and some even do move on in the fear of God. We can always witness whereever we end up.
Citizens of heaven first, and patriots of America second, true?! The world is my parish.
Ooops, sorry so long!
For His glory, Roy