I have recently updated my blogroll (although I plan to overhaul that completely when I get back from our trip this month) to include several other good blogs which critique IFB & IFBx fundamentalism. One of those blogs that I really enjoy is Bread and Circuses by Matt and Josh Richards. They both attended Hyles Anderson College and are doing a good job of providing a thoughtful and careful critique of the excesses of that ministry and IFBx in general, over on their blog.

Anyway, they recently posted a speech delivered by Dr. Dan Davey of Colonial Baptist Church in Virginia Beach, VA (also the president of Central Baptist Theological Seminary East, I believe) back in July of 2004. The speech was entitled “The Label of ‘Fundamentalism'”, and is a “great conversation starter in regards to true fundamentalism” as Matt Richards, put it. The Richards brothers asked for our comments, and so I gave mine. I definitely agree that the speech is worth reading and discussing, and so I am encouraging my readers to go check it out. They posted it in two parts, but it is really not all that long. You can see the first part here, and the second part here. I also want to reproduce my comments on the speech here for your benefit. What follows is my comment (almost verbatim) that I posted over on their blog. If any discussion ensues, you may need to follow the comments over on their blog.

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As a former “cultural fundamentalist” (who thought of himself as more of a “historic fundamentalist” at the time) I was very interested in Davey’s lecture. [Thanks Matt and Josh for posting it!] For what it’s worth, here are my thoughts concerning it.

1) I am impressed that he used three general categories, rather than two. He separated between the Billy Grahams and the John MacArthurs within Evangelicalism. Some would rather conveniently prefer to just lump them all in together and mark poison on the pot.

2) like the “rabbi-philosopher” I was disappointed by Davey’s dismissal of Piper. I think “rabbi” made a good point when he stressed that “avoid” does not necessarily mean “leave a denomination that they are in”. Several things frustrate me about the “historic fundamentalist (HF)”‘s treatment of conservative evangelicals.

First and foremost, they conclude that if anyone does not apply the doctrine of separation exactly like they (HF’s) do such a person or group is not separating at all and hence does not believe in separation. Thus this person or group becomes worthy of separation since they are obviously disobedient. In fact, however, the person or group is only disobedient to the fundamentalist’s application of separation, not the principle of separation itself.

Second, they refuse to be as polite to others as they are to anyone in their own movement. What I am getting at here is that it took almost 40 years for HFs to leave some of their denominations completely (for example the history of the FBF). It took years before those trying to save the Southern or Northern Baptist Conventions finally left. For some of the HFs it was against their will that they finally decided to leave. Now the HFs of today expect Piper to leave the BGC at the drop of a hat! Talk about inconsistency.

Third, they fail to consider the nature of a Baptist denomination. Baptists by their very nature are independent and autonomous and this is respected in most of their denominations. On the one hand, independent Baptist fundamentalists criticize Southern Baptists, for instance, for being a convention or a denomination. Then on the other hand they criticize the convention when it does not immediately step in and intervene in the autonomous affairs of a local congregation. The truth is that almost all Baptist denominations are not much different from the independent Baptist fellowships. They do not have a lot of authority by themselves: they require the authority of other churches. To do any disciplinary action, it takes a long process and the cooperation of other autonomous churches.

Before moving on, I should point out that Piper (I have been going to his church for almost a year and a half now, by the way) has been influential in trying to get the Baptist General Conference to take a position on Open Theism. It has not happened yet. Clearly not every BGC church is open theist. Piper reasons that he can continue to have an influence for good in the BGC by remaining in it. And Bethlehem Baptist Church retains autonomy, so he is not losing too much by staying. This is not to say that at some point in the future that Piper and the BBC elders will determine it is best for the church to just leave the BGC. But for now, they autonomously choose to remain.

3) I am glad he does stress that “cultural fundamentalists” (CFs) are a problem and schism to the HFs (and the church at large). Yet I wonder if the HFs and CFs are not closer together organically then HFs might be willing to admit. Now I respect the HFs, and I am happy for any of the Fs who are genuinely serving God and trying to please Him according to their conscience (wrong though some of them may be). But I think that the CFs come from the same root as the HFs. Yes, some of the positions of the CFs are culturally based, but then so are some of the positions of some HFs (think music). Further, both groups practice secondary separation often to the nth degree. And further, as Davey’s speech admits, the HFs practically conclude that anyone not organically connected to their movement is not really a fundamentalist and does not really do battle royal for the fundamentals. CFs share this same movement-oriented, us vs. them mentality.

4) In conclusion, I hope that Davey and other voices like his do prompt the HFs to clearly separate from the CFs. But I hope that they go one step further, that they take pains to go out of their way to say that people outside of their movement are faithful to the Scriptural commands concerning separation. In other words, that they refuse to act and operate as if they are the only ones who practice separation, and that if you really did practice separation you would run from conservative evangelicalism into historic fundamentalism’s open arms. They should own up to the fact that their main difference is in application of separation. And they should welcome and affirm those without their group as Bible lovers too. Then, perhaps, HFs might be able to truly distance themselves from their CF brethren. And they may be listened to and respected. After all, when the HFs go out of their way to cast stones at any and EVERY one outside of their group, how can you blame outsiders if they choose to ignore such a group?

Ultimately faithfulness to the truth is more important than influence, I know. But they need to be honest by admitting that HFs do not have a corner on the truth.

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∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7

Recently, I came across a thought-provoking article by Aaron Blumer entitled “The Neglected Posture of Conscience” posted over at Sharper Iron. It stressed that for some matters, a militant attitude is necessary as we “contend for the faith”, but others require a much softer stance. They are matters of conscience, wheras the former are matters of clear-cut doctrinal error. While his article did not delve into how to determine which category a given issue falls under, it did call for us all to consider the possibility that a given issue may be merely a matter of conscience. In such matters, we must be fully persuaded before God, and need not feel compelled to give up our standard, simply because we understand that other valid positions may exist. Yet we must not adopt the stance of “contending for the faith” when we know we are merely dealing with an issue not clearly addressed in Scripture. He goes on to give some advice in using this “posture of conscience”, and I encourage one and all to check his article out!

In the few comments after his post, Dan Miller lists some principles he uses with regard to convictions of conscience. I repeat them verbatim:

1. Consider as much Scripture and “general revelation” as possible in forming my convictions. Always be open to new light from the Word, and to information about the world we live in.
2. Hold my conviction firmly – as an order for the Lord Jesus Christ to me. But also be open to His leading through His Word to a new conviction.
3. Never suppose that my conviction (however “obvious” to me and however dearly held) must also be the Lord Jesus Christ’s order for my brother.
4. Never judge my brother’s conviction as wrong (however much I worry that he’s ignoring the Word).
5. Never judge my brother’s conviction as stupid (however crazy his reasoning sounds).
6. Expect my brother to base his convictions on application of the Word, and thus to admit it when he has convictions which are not Bible-based.
7. Accept my brother on the basis of the fruit of the Spirit in his life and his voluntary association with Christ through the ordinances of the church (“Receive him because God has received him.”). Conformity with my convictions is not an indicator of spirituality.
8. Admit it when I can see the reasoning for my brother’s conviction – even when I do not take the conviction for myself.

Now, while numbers 4 and 5 may be a bit strongly worded, these principles are very worthy of following. He gives some Scriptural examples as a basis for these principles as well in his comment here.

Needless to say, this article (and this particular comment) got me thinking! Why is such an approach so rare among fundamentalists these days? (I realize that other groups may be equally over-militant at times, but I have seen this most in fundamentalists.) Why is it that when someone disagrees with them, the default response is a militant rejection and separation from them as if they have disagreed with God’s direct commands?

So, let me ask, “Is it a sin to be wrong?” Let us assume, for instance, that I am wrong about Calvinism. That although there are many passages which seem to support this view, and although many good men counsel us to accept this view, when I reach heaven one day, I discover that I was actually taking the wrong position. Let us assume this. Now, am I sinning in doing so?

I have encountered some who would answer this question with a definite “Yes!” They reason as follows. There is only one correct interpretation of the Bible, and of any given passage. Only one doctrinal position is true. To adopt the wrong position or the wrong interpretation is to reject the truth. We are commanded to hold to sound doctrine, after all. If you reject the correct doctrinal position on any point of doctrine, you are rejecting sound doctrine. This is actually morally wrong. It is evil and wicked sin! [Of course, the correct interpretation of each passage, they assume to be their own position. In reality, their own interpretations are the measure for judging everyone else’s. If they don’t see it in the Bible, then it isn’t there…]

Aaron Blumer in his article mentioned the “human imperfections of reading, reasoning and evaluating”. We must remember we live in a fallen world. We must also realize that not all Biblical truth comes with equal clarity and emphasis. Now, would those who claim being wrong is a sin argue consistently concerning such matters as which day Jesus died on? Now there is only one correct view, right? So if Jesus really died on Friday and not on Thursday, you are rejecting the clear teaching of God’s Word right?

I believe that the fundamentals of the faith are clearly revealed in Scripture, and that the rejection of these are what is primarily referred to in passages about maintaining sound doctrine and separating from those that do not. In areas where there is more ambiguity, and less clarity, where good men differ and reasonable (and Bible-respecting) arguments abound on both sides of the issue–there is room to be wrong, and yet not be sinning.

I welcome your thoughts concerning this. What do you think? Is it a sin to be wrong? Know, that if you reject my position, you are rejecting God and I will thus delete all further comments from you!!! (Just kidding!) Seriously, what do you all think concerning this. I am all ears.

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∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7