Jesus’ Demands: Repent (#2) & Come unto Me (#3)

I have started blogging through Jesus’ Demands as discussed in John Piper’s latest book What Jesus Demands from the World. On now to demands #2 & 3.

Click to orderDemand #2 — Repent

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matt. 4:17)

I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. (Luke 5:32)

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel. (Mark 1:15)

Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3, 5)

Jesus called everyone to repent—it was his first public demand. Piper pointed out that “repentance is an internal change of mind and heart rather than mere sorrow for sin or mere improvement of behavior.” He points to the two halves of the Greek word for repentance (metanoeo) for support. Meta signifies change and noeo is the word for the mind (and “its thoughts and perceptions and dispositions and purposes”). Luke 3:8 is very instructive as to the nature of repentance as it calls us to “bear fruits in keeping with repentance”. Thus, repentance is a change of mind and heart that happens inside of us and inevitably leads to new behavior.

Jesus demands we experience this inward change of heart. He calls sinners to repent. Sin, Piper argues, is “an assault on God.” And thus we must turn away from this attitude of enmity with God and submit to His will. Piper sums up the ideas inherent in repentance with the following sentence.

Repenting means experiencing a change of mind so that we can see God as true and beautiful and worthy of all our praise and all our obedience.

And repentance is universally needed. It is not just the bad people who stand in need of repentance but we all do. And if we don’t repent, Jesus says we will “all likewise perish”! This is serious. But this command to repent is not separated from God’s gracious offer of forgiveness. We are to “repent and believe in the gospel”. And this command is to go to every tribe, tongue, and nation (Luke 24:46-47).

Repentance has recently been redefined by “Free Grace” advocates and others who oppose a so-called “Lordship Salvation”. I won’t get into that here, but will point you to this post for a series of articles which explain and defend the correct definition of repentance well.

But before moving on, I think it is appropriate to ponder the full weight of this command. We are called to experience an inward change of heart which results in our relinquishing sin and relishing in Jesus. Are you, am I currently savoring the Savior? Repentance is an initial requirement for salvation. But it is more than that. It bears lasting fruit and so our continual response to the sin we so often fall back to, should be one of repentance. And just as God must grant repentance to those enslaved by sin (2 Tim. 2:24-26), so God must help us to experience a genuine sorrow over and internal change in reference to our sin. May he truly give us repentance and enable us to live lives that are pleasing to Him.

Demand #3 — Come unto Me

Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (Matt. 11:28)

Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.” (John 7:37)

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger. ” (John 6:35)

You refuse to come to me that you may have life. (John 5:40)

Repentance seems so negative. And it is true Jesus calls us to leave self-glorifying sin. But Christ dose not call us to a “monastic” life of continual bitterness of spirit. He does not call us to a life of hopeless attempts to please a stern and unbending Lord. No, he came to give us joy.

…when God gives the radical change of new birth and repentance, Jesus himself becomes our supreme treasure. “His yoke is easy, and his burden is light.” Therefore, his demand that we come to him is not burdensome. It means coming to the one who has become everything to us. [I changed the formatting somewhat here.]

Jesus offers us “rest”, “water”, and “bread”. This is relief, quenched thirst, and spiritual nourishment. There is a sense that coming to Jesus is not easy. It is a “burden”. But the difficulty lies in this fallen world and not in Jesus. He even promises to help bear that burden.

Jesus desires, yea demands us to come. But so many don’t. Why is this? In Matt. 23:37 Jesus weeps because those in Jerusalem “would not” come to him. And in Jn. 5:40 Jesus points out that many “refuse to come”. People “refuse to come” because they do not want to come. Some would call this a “choice of free will” but Piper stresses that “Jesus would probably say it is the choice of a will enslaved to sin” (see John 8:34). Since we are all enslaved to sin, how can any come? Piper answers,

…God, in his great mercy, overcomes our resistance and draws us: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). “No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father” (John 6:65). God grants the gift of new birth and repentance, which opens the eyes of the spiritually blind to the truth and beauty of Jesus. When this happens, all suicidal objections fall. We are finally free. And finally free from slavery, we come.

A few thoughts concerning this demand now come to mind. First, we should “never cease to praise and thank [God] for his sovereign grace” which draws us to Jesus. I know many who read this blog are yet to be convinced of Calvinism. I hope, however, that in reading this post you see that the Calvinist position on this point is cause for greater praise and wonder at the glory that God would choose us. It is not about being better than others, and it is not about belittling the need for evangelism. God regenerates us through the preached Gospel message, and Calvinists affirm that everyone who believes will truly be saved. But step back and see the wonder of God’s grace. After all, you could have been born as a Hindu in India, with little chance to be saved, or a Mayan Indian before Christ with almost no chance to be saved. Praise God for his undeserved goodness in drawing you to Himself.

Second, let us meditate on how good Jesus is. What a wonder that when he calls us to come, it is not like a frustrated Father calling us to face judgment, but rather that of a tender One who loves us and wants to meet our deepest needs! Jesus calls us to come and drink, eat, and find glorious rest and joy, even, in Him. And not for a little while but more and more for ever and ever! Praise Jesus for such wonderful news. Let us come, let us pray that God gives us more grace to come in an ever more true way. Let us pursue Jesus as our Supreme Treasure.

—See all posts on, the Demands of Jesus


∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7

Understanding Lordship Salvation

Many a fundamentalist has a real hard time with the idea of “Lordship Salvation”. (With Calvinism too, but that is another post…) They have a “knee jerk” reaction against these doctrines, and yet in many ways I would view this as healthy. You look shocked, but let me explain. Fundamentalists often misunderstand these views, and with regard to “Lordship Salvation” they think of it as a “works-based salvation”. And to react strongly against works based salvation is very commendable and healthy.

But Lordship Salvation is not a works based salvation scheme. Let me say that again, Lordship Salvation is not works based salvation!

I just finished reading a series of articles which in my opinion is extremely helpful for anyone desiring to understand Lordship Salvation. And in all honesty, to understand Lordship Salvation you need to go to the horse’s mouth, so to speak. I have little patience for people who claim to seriously hold a position on a debated issue yet who have never read anything written by the other side.

Well, here is your chance. Nathan Busenitz at Pulpit Live (affiliated with John MacArthur’s church) has just finished a series of five posts critiquing Lou Martuneac’s new book In Defense of the Gospel: Biblical Answers to Lordship Salvation. Lou is a fundamentalist who has concluded that Lordship Salvation is another gospel. And Nathan explains how Lou’s conclusion is wrong by showing how Lou misunderstands Lordship Salvation. So in Nathan’s critique of Lou’s book, he provides a clear explanation of what Lordship Salvation really is.

So without further ado, let me provide the links here to Nathan’s critique of this book, and let me encourage you to check out these posts in order to have a better understanding of Lordship Salvation.

UPDATE: Here are two last links to Nathan’s final discussion of Lordship Salvation. Also, I threw in a link to the last post of Phil Johnson’s personal testimony in regards to this debate. Phil’s posts are very informative as to the history of the Lordship debate. He provides links to all the posts in that series at the bottom of the post linked to below.


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The People Clapped, He Sat Down, and the Fundamentalists Went Wild

UPDATE: For those  who have been following this, I want to provide a brief update. You others, read the original post first and then come up here for more!

I  should point out the comments under Bixby’s post (linked to below) are worth reading. Also, Scott Aniol gives a post differentiating his beliefs  from the philosophical position mentioned in Bixby’s post—it is worth reading to understand Scott’s position more. I stumbled across a good summary post by Rick Pidcock which does a better job of chronicling the debate than I did (there are some good comments by Tom Pryde, Ken Fields, and  Rick in the comment section). And no less than Scott Aniol, pointed my attention to a really good, Christ-honoring take (by Phillip Gons) on all of this (although  Phillip  doesn’t really take sides with respect to the music debate).

Most worth reading, is Ken Fields’ newest post, where he reproduces the thoughts of Christian hip-hop artist named Shai Linne. Shai originally posted his thoughts in the first SI thread on this issue. I read them and appreciated them then, but forgot about them when making this post. Ken got Shai’s permission to repost them here. It is worth a read, as Shai responds in a helpful and gracious way. Shai sheds more light on the whole issue of Christian rap in his comments in the discussion under Ken’s post. Definitely, well worth the read—so thanks again Ken! (Sorry, I’m too strapped to fork out a shirt!)

Ryan Debarr gives some further thoughts about this whole controversy—his post is definitely not a “cookie cutter” argument defending CCM. He makes some good observations and expresses some proper concern over the flippant use of terms like “blasphemy and apostasy”.

Finally, Bixby chimes in again (we are still waiting for his “alternative” springing from the post linked to of his below) stressing a need to remember a Gospel Centered approach to worship. Worship is not primarily us giving back to God, but rather us experiencing the benefits of Christ’s vicarious humanity (and his death). Bixby helpfully points us to Parts One and Two of Dan Cruver’s Gospel-Centered Worship series. Do go check those posts out!


Ken Fields will have to forgive me for using a line from his  recent post  for my title. There has been quite the blog storm recently, and those words were the best description I have found.Last Sunday, my church had Curtis Allen (a Christian rapper aka “Voice”) come to perform for our Aeropagus—a culture club of sorts—after the Saturday evening service at our downtown site. Since Curtis was present for the worship service, Pastor John Piper invited him to sing for the service, and he sang one song as a special number—a testimonial song that was quite tame as far as rap songs go. Well, as Ken said, “the people clapped, he sat down…and the fundamentalists went wild!”

Justin Taylor posted a video-clip  of that service, and Sharper Iron linked to it. One of the most heated (non KJV only) discussions  in SI’s history followed (it grew to over 30 pages in near record time). Other fundamentalist blogs joined the many SI posters in a loud disgust over Piper and any fundamentalists which would condone the use of rap music in worship (see here and here). More discussions were held on SI (here and  here), and an incredibly harsh post  was given by Scott Aniol.  Other fundamentalist bloggers joined SI posters in expressing surprise at the mean attitude apparent in some who were so vocal in their bashing of rap or CCM type music, see here and here and here. There was even an apology and a retraction. Lastly,  Bob Bixby offered a really good analogy regarding the  future “movement”  of some fundamentalists which stresses a “high view” of music. I really recommend reading his post, even if you skip all the other links above. [Note my listing of these links is not necessarily in chronological order–they all were from 10/31 through 11/2, however.]

I linked to all  of these discussions  on purpose. Some of my readers  may not be privy to all the “young fundamentalist”  blogs out there (and I am sure I missed some posts, too) and may have missed this whole discussion. But beyond that, I think this whole discussion is instructive. It reveals the sometimes shameful attitudes of some fundamentalists—I particularly was shocked by the willingness for many to just write off Piper completely because of this “wrong” decision. It also shows how so many refuse to let music be a matter of personal conviction. They prefer to make judgments on those who do not agree with their position, or worse to mandate a certain musical style—all this and yet no Scripture directly bears on musical style. Yes, we can apply Scriptural principles and we should, but such application is not equivalent to a direct command. Our interpretation and application of them is important for us but is not universally binding. And lastly, this discussion informs us concerning the musical debate. There were interesting arguments on both sides, and they may prove enlightening to some of my readers.

I would like to shift the discussion now  from the  recent  brouhaha to the music debate. And I would like to make three points. [Just in case you were interested, you can see my comments in the initial SI thread about this whole thing here.]

1) The “high” art vs. “low” art (or “pop” art) distinction.

Not everyone who has been involved in the recent music debate makes use of this argument. But many do (see Bixby’s post where he suggests that many who do major on this argument are part of a “movement”). This view posits that classical music styles are “high” art and thus more becoming of the worship of our God, than the crass “low” art styles.

Recently I came across some great articles by Kevin Twit (of Indelible Grace) where he argues that such a distinction is artificial and a relatively recent innovation. Let me provide a few quotes from him, as I think they bear directly on this point.

The dichotomy between high art and pop art is, at best, both unhelpful and musically and historically rather naive. Actually the historical basis of this is a rather racist argument. This distinction is really only about 150 years old, emerges during the 19th century as people try to separate themselves from the massive influx of Eastern European immigrants, and falls prey to a classic logical fallacy: just because something is popular does not mean it is of inferior quality! It may mean that it is of great quality and has connected with a large number of people for really good reasons! In addition, the attempt to make a big distinction between folk art and pop art fails to understand how popular art functions. (see William Romanowski’s recent book Eyes Wide Open pg. 72-75 for a wonderful discussion of this issue! Or if you want to study this even more in depth, track down Lawrence Levine’s “Highbrow, Lowbrow: The Emergence Of Cultural Hierarchy In America”) — from this article (see my recent post for a more legible version).

…the high art/ low art dichotomy….has become such a part of our vocabulary that it seems like a self-evident truth. Low art is said to be inherently inferior to high art. This is the crux of the arguments of people like Allan Bloom and Ken Myers. However there are a number of serious problems with this simplistic reduction.

First of all it is musically naive. As Lawrence Levine points out in an insightful study, most discussions regarding high and low art can’t define where the dividing line is. I would suggest that this is because the line is largely arbitrarily drawn….Music is cultural activity, as William Edgar points out….The attempt to find a universal music that is a-cultural is misguided. Yet this is often what traditional, elitist, Classical musicologists attempt to do….

The second problem with the elitist view is that it constitutes a misuse of language. Levine argues (I believe rightly so) that we shouldn’t use “pop” as an aesthetic judgment, rather we should use it literally to mean that a piece of music has popular appeal. But who says that popular art is necessarily bad art? We must be very careful about automatically equating high art with tradition and intelligence, and low art with the poor, ignorant masses. Levine shows how in the 19th century in America, Shakespeare was pop art! The shift in America took place around the turn of the century and is closely connected with racism and the attempt of one segment of the culture to gain control. William Edgar also picks up on this historical phenomena. The high / low dichotomy in art is not an eternal fact it is a cultural development.

Thirdly, as Edgar points out, this elitist view actually lowers the standards of pop music because pop isn’t taken seriously. Do we send the message that all fields are worthy of our best effort except pop music?….Surely we would be better off to take pop seriously and encourage talented men and women to invest their energy in this field, than to simply dismiss it as unredeemable. —from this article (underline emphasis was italic in original).

2) A Eurocentric Bias.

There is another bias besides the one which  views its music style of choice intrinsically “higher” than others. There is a racist bent toward claiming that eurocentric music is the pinnacle of music form. I was surprised that so many people reacted so strongly against this claim. It is often easy to be blind to our racism, I guess. But seriously, a eurocentric music style is what people are defending, and the music styles they are objecting to stem from non eurocentric cultures. The charge of racism is not really all that painful. It merely points out that one particular culture is being preferred to others, there is a racist bent to this eurocentric bias. I believe it is fairly clear. People who hold to that view might not be meaning to be racist, but their is an inherent racism in the argument that “white” music is always best.

Now Ryan Debarr helped by pointing out  that there is a point to be raised in favor of such cultural bias. He mentioned that the eurocentric culture has arguably been most influenced by the Gospel. However, as even he admits, to argue from this point that any aspect of eurocentric culture (like music for instance) is invariably better than that of non eurocentric cultures is to say too much. And along these lines, in a recent article that I quoted, there is a strong case made that much of the music (not lyrics, but music styles and even poetic structures) used for worship in the eurocentric culture has been borrowed from the pop (and non Christian) culture of that era.

At this point, I would like to reproduce a comment that was made over at Zach Nielsen’s blog in a series of posts he has made critiquing the book Can We Rock the Gospel? by John Blanchard and Dan Lucarini. The comment was placed at the end of this post on chapter 7, and I will reproduce it here below.

At the root of these arguments is an air of ethnocentricity. In other words, there is a core assumption that ones own preference and cultural heritage (i.e. conventional western harmony) is the most evolved form of music. Seldom do the writers of these kinds of books acknowledge that the ancient music forms in the scriptures preceded conventional harmony and tuning. To do so would be to admit that they would hate the music that David danced to.

3) A Matter of Taste.

Finally, I would like to talk about taste. Some speak as if taste does not matter at all—classical style music is just always better and should be singularly used in praise to God. And yet some speak as if music is only a matter of taste. Taste is definitely a factor, but it does not have to be the exclusive factor.  

I was really blessed by a helpful analogy I found made by “Keith” over at NeoFundamentalist. I want to reproduce Keith’s thoughts since they were so helpful to me. They may be worth discussing in more length in the comments here. The following comments  can be  seen in their original context here. They are so good, that I fear I will take away from them unless I reproduce them in full. I hope this will not be breaking blogging etiquette to do so.  

The recent debates between the various types of fundamentalists over music leave me confused.

I think I would be called a musical and cultural elitist by some, but I also see no reason to hyperventilate over John Piper allowing a rap.

But to the bloggers and commenters, it all seems so either/or, why?

How is it not self evident that some music is better, as music, than other music?

Similarly, how is it not self evident that, while we should respect and properly use the best, we are not required to always participate in the best?

Food is just one example. The food at a fine French Restaurant is beyond question better, as food, than the food at McDonald’s. Trying to deny that is to deny meaning and objectivity and absolutes. Even so, does that mean that McDonald’s must be forbidden?

The fundamentalists of various types SEEM (I’m trying to understand here) to think that I must either (A) Say the French food is better and therefore never eat anything else (the elitists) or (B) Say that there is no such thing as “better” there is only preference you like French, I like McDonald’s (the “young” crowd).

Why can’t I say that the French food must be considered better even though I might eat McDonald’s more often and properly so for a variety of reasons?

Reformation Day and Unity

Ulrich ZwingliToday  is Reformation Day!   Yes, 489 years ago this day, Martin Luther nailed  his 95 Theses against indulgences on the door of the church in Wittenburg, Germany.   We are still reaping the blessings from the Reformation which followed that action.

One of the key players in the Reformation was Ulrich Zwingli (pictured on the right).   He is not as well known as Luther, his contemporary, or John Calvin, who followed in his footsteps.   Zwingli led the Reformation in Switzerland, where Calvin would later minister in furthering the influence of that Reformation.

Zwingli was more moderate in his approach toward reform, and simply preached on the text of Matthew for several years in his pastorate at Zurich, Switzerland.   After years of preaching he worked toward reform using the existing channels of authority—working with his local Canton authorities and engaging in different debates in different conferences held to look at doctrine.   His patience paid off and many of the unBiblical traditions from the church of Rome were eventually thrown off, as his doctrine become more and more widespread throughout Switzerland.

I must say that I was reminded of Zwingli and his influence through some emails from Sam Storms of Enjoying God Ministries.   I am on his email list (which you can join by clicking here) and he sent out two articles on Zwingli’s life which were very interesting to read.   They are  available online at EGM’s website: here and here.

Anyway, Storms pointed out something about Zwingli that really got me thinking.   Zwingli was basically Baptist in his views on the Lord’s Supper.   He, along with many a Baptist, viewed the bread and wine as purely symbolic: there was no presence of the Lord Jesus Christ at the Supper.   Most Reformed people agree with Calvin that there is a spiritual presence of Jesus in Communion (see this previous post  of mine defending that view).   Luther, however, strongly disagreed with Zwingli and taught that Christ was present with the elements (although he denied Roman Catholicism’s transubstantiation belief).

Let me here give a quote from Storms’ second email on Zwingli (the information is also available in his second article linked to above) concerning the outcome of a conference held to try to get Luther and Zwingli to come to an agreement on this point.

The dialogue at Marburg initially looked hopeful. Both parties jointly affirmed 14 articles of faith (such as the Trinity and justification by faith alone). But they couldn’t agree on the nature of Christ’s presence in the elements.

The debate proved fruitless. Luther stubbornly insisted on the literal force of the words: “This is my body,” while Zwingli, no less stubbornly, pointed to the words of Jesus: “It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing; the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit and life.” The dialogue was often bitter:

Zwingli: “I remain firm at this text, ‘the flesh profiteth nothing.’ I shall oblige you to return to it. You will have to sing a different tune with me.”

Luther: “You speak in hatred.”

Zwingli: “Then declare at least whether or not you will allow John 6 to stand?”

Luther: “You are trying to overwork it.”

Zwingli: “No, no, it is just that text that will break your neck.”

Luther: “Don’t be too sure of yourself. Our necks don’t break as easily as that.”

One final meeting was arranged. With tears in his eyes, Zwingli approached Luther and held out the hand of brotherhood, but Luther declined it, saying: “Yours is a different spirit from ours.” Zwingli said:

“Let us confess our union in all things in which we agree; and, as for the rest, let us remember that we are brethren. There will never be peace in the churches if we cannot bear differences on secondary points.”

Luther replied:

“I am astonished that you wish to consider me as your brother. It shows clearly that you do not attach much importance to your doctrine.”

The split was final.

I was struck by the desire of Zwingli to have a real unity with Luther in spite of differences over the finer points of Communion.   And I was saddened to see Luther’s harsh reply.

This Reformation Day, I am reminded that a reformation spirit is indeed necessary.   The break from Rome was necessary as the Protestant church returned to the important truths regarding salvation so clearly taught in Scripture.   I think the original fundamentalist movement was an attempt to apply that “reformation spirit” of old to the problems of modernism and liberal theology.   And again I applaud that spirit as necessary for the defense of the important Biblical doctrines (the fundamentals, if you will).

However, we as a church are called to unity (see the verses that are at the end of each of my posts for proof).   And just because the papists of Zwingli’s day, or the ecumenists of our day will often use a call to unity to advance an attack on true Biblical doctrine, this does not negate the importance of unity.   The truly fundamental and essential doctrines are advanced through unity.   And secondary doctrines are just that.  

While it is important for modern day Luthers and Zwinglis to hold to differing doctrines on secondary matters, it is likewise important for them to purpose to maintain a real unity in the most important matters despite those same differences.   Only then, is the cause of Christ advanced in line with His own prayer in John 17. I pray that we as a church will humbly follow Zwingli’s example of prizing unity above our secondary differences.

For more info on Zwingli, see the posts referred to above by Storms, as well as this Wikipedia article on Zwingli (from which I borrowed this picture).   Also see this article by Paul Mizzi, this article and this one all found at Monergism.com.   And for more on Reformation Day, see the long list by Tim Challies, and a shorter one by my friend John Chitty, of blogposts dealing with Reformation Day.

Hoping for a Re-Run of Original Fundamentalism

The Fundamentals, edited by R.A. Torrey

 

Nathan Busenitz over at Pulpit Blog(an online magazine/blog published by John MacArthur’s church)  gave us a must read article yesterday entitled “Our Fundamentalist Future.” In it he compares what is happening today within conservative evangelicalism to what happened more than one hundred years  ago in the rise of the fundamentalist movement. I encourage you to go give his article a read first, but I’ll whet your appetite with a few excerpts here below. Then come on back and see if we can discuss the article here.

Fast forward 128 years from 1878….Now it’s 2006. Yet the basic theological issues of today are not all that different than in 1878. The church of their day was faced with the temptation to compromise. The church today is faced with the very same temptation. The only difference is that we put a “post” in front of the “modernism.” …

The original fundamentalists rallied around core doctrines, desperately desiring to honor the Scripture, and vowing to stand firm against the advances of modernism. Interestingly, they found their rallying point not in denominational ties, but in a common love for Christ and a shared commitment to the truth. Their fellowship crossed denominational boundaries, finding an outlet in national Bible conferences like the one held near Niagara Falls. The movement itself was led by godly leaders from various backgrounds. It was undergirded by doctrinal creeds, and it was promoted through preaching and writing.

In the face of postmodernism, today’s conservative Christian leaders are again rallying around the same core doctrines as the original fundamentalists. Vowing to stand firm against the advances of postmodernism, today’s “fundamentalists” again cross denominational lines. Baptists like Mark Dever and Al Mohler, independents like John MacArthur, Presbyterians like R.C. Sproul and Ligon Duncan, reformed charismatics like John Piper and C.J. Mahaney””they are standing united because something more important than denominational lines is at stake. The purity of the gospel is at stake.

Thousands of pastors across the nation are standing with them….Like the original fundamentalists,  these conservative evangelical  leaders don’t agree on every secondary doctrine. But they do agree on the essentials. And that’s what makes them fundamentalists: they hold fast to the fundamental doctrines of the faith…. [Read the whole article. Underlined emphasis was italic in the original.]

This article is really thought-provoking. And I believe it is worth some discussion. I posted the following  observations/questions as a comment over on Pulpit blog.

1) What is the contemporary remake of The Fundamentals? It seems that it would be good to have something like this today, is there anything out there already? Or do you think we don’t need anything like this?

2) Is this rerun of fundamentalism to be Calvinist-only? It appears most of those you mention are Calvinist. Can we not join together with Biblically minded, theologically conservative, non-Calvinistic brethren? And along this line, do you think this is already being done? I know the Together 4 the Gospel Affirmations & Denialsdid not explicitly shun contemporary Arminianism.

3) Should there be a push for us to unite around something like the T4G Affirmations & Denials statement mentioned above? Could we try to get diverse groups like the Association of Confessing Evangelicals and other counterpart groups to join in affirming some basic fundamental document? Would this help the movement or hinder it?

For my readership, which includes many self-described fundamentalists (most are hard at work reforming fundamentalism, or moving away from hyper fundamentalism–IFBx), a few “hyper fundamentalists”  (they would disagree…)  looking in on the discussion here, and a few recovering/ex fundamentalists (I would label myself here—I accept historic fundamentalism but not the secondary and tertiary separation that still defines [in a large degree] mainstream fundamentalism today), let me point out something of interest and add a fourth point of discussion.

In the comments section, Nathan Busenitz had this clarification to make concerning his article and the mainstream fundamentalism of today:

If I am reading your comment correctly, you seem to be saying something like: “It’s about time the evangelicals realized that modern fundamentalists are right, and started separating like they do.” … [let me] respond by suggesting that conservative evangelicals have no desire to embrace the hyper-separatism, anti-intellectualism, or moral externalism that characterizes much of modern fundamentalism. (Please note that I said “much,” not “all.” )

My point in the article is that conservative evangelicals share much in common with the original fundamentalists. In fact, I believe the conservative evangelical movement today has more in common with the original fundamentalists than the modern fundamentalist movement does. Much more in common, in fact.

Those who are the truest to original fundamentalist beliefs are not those who separate over secondary and tertiary doctrines (not to mention social issues). They are instead those who unify around the fundamentals of the faith. And that, I believe, is the key difference. [bold emphasis mine; underlined emphasis was italic in the original]

Joel's Pipe-Dream??You may not be too  surprised that I tend to agree with Nathan’s sentiments above. But here is an opportunity to discuss whether Joel Tetreau’s oft-blogged about vision of Type B and Type C fundamentalists (for the uninitiated, Type B is mainstream Fundamentalism, and Type C is conservative evangelicalism) standing shoulder to shoulder on common ground, is anything more than a mere pipe-dream.

So here is a 4th point of discussion.

4) Can mainstream fundamentalists really join the push for a modern re-run of original historic fundamentalism? Would they want to/be willing to? Would conservative evangelicals even let them? What could be done (from either side of the aisle) to widen the movement to include mainline fundamentalists? How exactly could joining such a movement be a capitulation from the ideals of rigid separatism? And if it is, how then can you defend the original fundamentalists for doing the same thing? Why shouldn’t separatists unify with others around these causes?

I hope we can generate some worthwhile discussion here. It would be great to be thinking and working (in however small a way) toward a more real unity in the body of Christ rallying around the cause of maintaining the purity of the Gospel in the face of the threat of post-modernism.


∼striving for the unity of the faith for the glory of God∼ Eph. 4:3,13 “¢ Rom. 15:5-7