Tim Challies on Piper & Warren: Responding with Grace

~ Bob Hayton

Last week, I posted my response to John Piper’s invitation of Rick Warren to speak at this year’s DG Conference. I have since gotten mixed reactions to it. Both on my blog and elsewhere, I’ve seen a wide range of reactions. Some are denouncing Piper as a heretic. At least one has withdrawn any endorsement or use of Piper’s books and materials in his church’s ministry. Some are waiting to see how this turns out, but displeased with Piper’s action. Others see no problem at all and are incensed with all the negative reactions.

Today, Tim Challies posted his response, and I think his post is a model of how to respond gracefully to such controversies in the church. He posts clear and thoughtful reasons why Piper shouldn’t have invited Warren. But he does this charitably and stresses it isn’t that big of a deal. We shouldn’t disregard Piper’s proven record of faithful ministry over this one decision.

I encourage you to check out Challies’ post, and may we all learn to express ourselves with such reserve and grace in such matters.

Quotes to Note 15a: Why “Good Friday”?

~ Bob Hayton ~ 3 Comments

This week I’ve been reading through Adrian Warnock’s new book Raised with Christ: How the Resurrection Changes Everything (Crossway). The following selection is both amusing and instructive. It may serve to help us turn our minds toward the events this day commemorates.

As a young child I asked my father a series of questions one evening as he put me to bed. This is the conversation as I remember it:

“Why is Good Friday called ‘good’?”
“Because Jesus died for us.”
“But why was it called good when someone died?”
“Because he came back to life.”
“But why is it not Bad Friday and Good Sunday then?”

I somehow instinctively knew that the cross could not be good news without the resurrection….

Many times when I heard the gospel explained in later years, the resurrection was either omitted altogether or briefly discussed in passing. When I began to share the Christian message with others individually and while preaching, to my shame I often did so without mentioning that Jesus is alive. The resurrection had become an afterthought to the message that Jesus died for our sins.

I think Adrian Warnock is on to something here. I posted an excerpt from a recent interview he did earlier. You may also want to check out another interview he did with my good blogging friend Jason Skipper.

You can preview or purchase his book from Westminster Bookstore at this link. Stay tuned to RaisedwithChrist.net for more info on the book. I’ll be posting my review in the next week or two.

John Piper, Rick Warren & the Watchbloggers: The Persistent Problem of Secondary Separation

~ Bob Hayton ~ 42 Comments

I wish I had more time to comment on this. As it is, I’m away from home and don’t have much online time this week….

I fired up my twitter feed when I got to our destination, only to see a lot of ire being directed toward John Piper for his invitation of Rick Warren to speak at the Desiring God National Conference this fall. The watchbloggers, most notably CrossTalk blog (formerly Slice of Laodicea), are all upset over this and seem to have totally written John Piper off. I won’t repeat many of the charges, I’d feel dirty doing so. Just search the term #apj in Twitter to see some of this for yourself, or scour the comments at some of Justin Taylor’s recent blog posts.

Piper had explained his rationale for inviting Warren in audio/video posted here or in the comments. This comment under that post provides a transcript of Piper’s words on the subject and is helpful.

Last night, DG had hosted another ask Pastor John live online Q & A event, and so of course Piper had to deal with the controversy. The DG Blog has a 12 minute video-clip up from last night’s event, that should satisfy anyone’s curiosity. In that clip, which I recommend you watch, I found a few segments very insightful and pertinent to the issue of secondary and excessive separation. Let me provide some excerpts here and then offer some thoughts. I apologize in advance, if I don’t get the transcript exactly right.

…I’m real eager that this glorious thing God is doing in the “young, restless, reformed” — whatever this thing is called that God’s doing, awakening people’s love for the supremacy of God in all things. I’m real eager that that not become a brittle, narrow, ugly, excessively separatist movement, and so I’m not devoting my life to finding a lot of enemies to attack. I’ve got some, but I like to do it simply by hammering on truth….

Separatism or, who you do things with, is an important Biblical question. And so, I don’t put Rick Warren in the group that I’m going to hold at an arm’s distance. …I’m not going to draw the circle there.

And suppose you disagree with me on that. Now you’re faced with the question, ok, I’m with John Piper theologically. I’m not with Rick Warren on a bunch of things. John Piper has just chosen to hang out with Rick Warren. What do I do with John Piper? That’s called secondary separation issues. And there you are, I hope we can disagree about who we hang out with. Okay. Because a lot of traditional fundamentalists have said, no, if you hang out with somebody that I believe I should separate from, then I’m going to separate from you. And I want to say, look let’s, can we disagree about whether he would come to your conference and you still be willing to eat with me, talk with me?

So I would encourage you to think through that issue of secondary separation. The way I have chosen to live my life for the sake of reformed theology and the supremacy of God and the inerrancy of the Bible and the importance of solid Reformation gospel truths, the 5 solas, and so on, is to give all my energy to putting them in a positive, aggressively spreadable form, not to spend my time shooting at the people who don’t like them….

I think Piper does a good job explaining secondary separation. It is always a problem, because people always will disagree with others on their particular approach to ministry. So, should we just separate from anyone not exactly like us? No.

I find it interesting that many who aren’t fundamentalists exactly (they aren’t card-carrying Independent fundamental Baptists), still think secondary separation should apply here. I think it’s the natural human reaction when we face disagreements. It is certainly easier to just write people off, then allow for important differences.

Yet, Rom. 14-15 should apply here. We can accept others even thought they differ from us. Personally, I’m encouraged that Piper is reaching out to Warren. He may perhaps influence Warren, and Warren does have some positive things to share with us, too.

I have serious reservations about Warren and his methodology. But his book revolutionized my grandfather’s life. I can’t argue with that. When we take small differences and make them so important we will die over them, we are making mountains out of molehills. And in the process, the important, fundamental truths–that list Piper shared that Warren upholds– are rendered meaningless. As I have pointed out before, we “minimize the gospel through [such] excessive separation.” I think the unity we have in the big things should enable us to get along enough to respect others who differ with us in relatively minor matters.

What’s your thoughts on Piper and Warren. Do you agree with my thoughts here? If not, why should we think of Piper as “selling out” for this invitation of Warren to speak? Please join the conversation in the comments below.

Churches Working Together: No Place for “Local Church”-Onlyism

~ Bob Hayton

I am leaving for a trip, but wanted to leave you all with some good reading material.

Jeff Straub, professor of history at Central Baptist Theological Seminary here in Minneapolis has a couple posts stressing the importance of “churches working together”. Rather than seeing each church as an island completely independent and in need of nothing (which many local church only advocates do), his picture is closer to the biblical picture of churches working together.

I encourage you to check out his two posts. For those wondering, “local church” onlyism is the idea that there is little if any sense of the “universal church” idea in Scripture. Instead everything said of the church in Scripture is true of one local church ideally. In my opinion, this leads to the conclusion that cooperation between churches and unity and all that is just optional.

Here are the links to Dr. Straub’s posts. He makes the case that churches working together produce longer lasting fruit than churches doing it solo.

The comments are worth the read too. Let me know here what you think, too.

10 Points to Consider Before You Contemplate Divorce

~ Bob Hayton ~ 3 Comments

It boggles my mind that so many Christians today are convinced that divorce is a viable option for them. They agree that the Bible generally frowns on divorce, and that it isn’t best. But in their situation…. If we just knew how rough they had it, we’d understand!

To those in that place, let me offer some advice. Here are 10 points I pray you’d consider carefully before you ever contemplate divorce. [And I’m referring to divorce without any Biblical warrant such as adultery or abandonment.]

1) If you claim that Jesus is your Lord, ask yourself this: “Does my Lord and Master agree with me on this decision? Does Jesus really want me to divorce my spouse?”

2) If you think He does agree with you, then look a little more closely at the following Bible passage:

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”… And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. (Matt. 19:3-6, 9)

Jesus, our Lord, makes it very clear that divorce for just any old reason is not permissible.

3) You might say, “that is just your interpretation of this passage.” To that, I would reply with a question. “How then, can you know anything about God, salvation, eternal life or anything?” If you can’t take God at His Word here, and you prefer to twist it to allow an exception for yourself, who’s to stop you from twisting any other passage? And who’s to say we’re not wrong about everything when it comes to Christianity?

4) Now let me try a different approach. Consider Jesus and His bride, the church. All believers are part of His church — we are His bride. Aren’t you glad Jesus hasn’t left you? Can you even contemplate the possibility that Jesus would leave you?

5) If we are thankful that Jesus loves us, and that He doesn’t leave us when the relationship doesn’t offer enough return on His investment, shouldn’t that influence how we treat our spouse? After all, Jesus’ forgiveness of our sin is the basis for our obligation to forgive others (Eph. 4:32). And even more soberly, if we don’t forgive others, we can not expect Jesus to forgive us (Matt. 6:14-15).

6) If you’re tracking with me even a little bit, I hope the following passage will perhaps connect with you more powerfully.

Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word…

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. (Eph. 5:24-26, 31-33)

No I’m not preaching at you here. No one lives up to the ideal presented in this teaching. Instead, look at the picture. Christ loves his church, and men ought to love their wives the same way. The church respects & submits to Christ, and wives ought so to respect their husbands. What will your divorce say about Christ and the church? How does what you’re about to do fit with this picture? As Christians we are to be “like Christ”. Divorce is entirely unlike Christ.

7) Here’s another angle, does a promise matter anymore? If you take back your promise to your spouse, do you think it’d be fine if Christ took back some of his promises to you? Isn’t this just a “lie” plain and simple? There may not be a more serious and damaging lie than the lie of divorce.

8) Another, and perhaps even more serious consideration focuses on the nature of sin. Sin is deceptive. It often feels right, but it isn’t. Sin can even give a temporary pleasure, but it won’t satisfy. The blatant sinner is one who convinces himself that there is very little sin in his actions. If you honestly think this divorce you are considering is not a terrible sin, you need to heed the warnings in the next 2 points.

9) Sin must be punished. Adultery (which is Jesus’ words for unwarranted divorce) is sin of the first degree. Adulterers don’t inherit the kingdom of God, unless they are washed and sanctified (1 Cor. 6:9-11). And people who claim to be washed and sanctified cannot lightly commit adultery, without risking serious injury to their soul.

10) You say, but this is all just so hard! You don’t know how hard this whole trial of a marriage has been. I do know. It’s not easy. Neither is fighting the sin of pornography, or any number of other sins which our sinful society so strongly encourages. It’s not easy to choose the narrow way that leads to life, and we aren’t promised a life full of roses with no thorns. The words of the author of Hebrews seem especially appropriate here.

…let us lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us…

Consider [Jesus] who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood…

For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore, lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. Strive… for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and casues trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears. (Heb. 12:1b, 3-4, 11-17)

I want what’s best for you, really. I don’t want you to miss out on “the peaceful fruit of righteousness”, and the joy of seeing the Lord, because you didn’t like God’s painful discipline and couldn’t fight for “the holiness without which no one will see the Lord”. I fear you are ready to sell your birthright “for a single meal” and miss out on so much. And like Esau, you may find yourself crossing a line to the point of no return — a place where, when you come to your senses and even seek for a chance to repent, you won’t be able to. That is what I fear the most.

Friend, I hope these points will help you. And for those like me who know people considering divorce, may you find this article helpful. May God be pleased to intervene and gloriously change hearts and heal relationships.