Tag: discernment

Doug Wilson on Pessimistic Assumptions & the Piper/Warren Controversy

~ Bob Hayton ~ 23 Comments

Following up on my post from this weekend, I stumbled across this jewel of a video clip with Doug Wilson discussing the Rick Warren / John Piper controversy. He makes some insightful comments about how pessimism plays a role in the conservative church today when we assess situations such as Piper and Warren getting together to talk. We assume that something bad is going to happen, rather than looking for a positive outcome. I think Wilson is on to something here, even if I don’t totally buy into his eschatology. Listen to the clip below and let me know what you think.

Rick Warren and Desiring God 2010 (Part III) from Canon Wired on Vimeo.

Be Careful about Bearing False Witness: John Piper, Rick Warren and Over-the-top Reactions

~ Bob Hayton ~ 20 Comments

John Piper’s ministry, Desiring God, will be holding a regional conference at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California April 29-30. Pastor Piper will also be speaking, apparently, at Saddleback Church on Sunday May 1.

Now, Rick Warren’s ministry raises some question marks for sure. Should the church be focusing on poverty and world peace so closely as an extension of ministry? Do some of Warren’s teaching methods and outreach efforts really cater to the “felt-needs” of the unchurched too much, to the point where the gospel is obscured? Does having the Jonas Brothers performing in concert reveal a total lack of discernment?

I’m not sure I have all the answers here about Rick Warren, but I haven’t talked with him either. What bothers me, is that many people are quick to point to John Piper’s speaking at Saddleback, and Rick Warren’s speaking at the Desiring God Conference in Minneapolis last Fall, and conclude that John Piper has sold out on the Gospel, and has compromised the faith.

I recently came across remarks by Ingrid Schlueter, a well-known watch-blogger:

Despite the countless and detailed warnings that have gone out over the last decade about Rick Warren and his distortion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, John Piper prepares to deliver his followers to the platform at Saddleback Church in an act of ultimate spiritual betrayal on April 29 and 30, 2011.

John Piper, perhaps more than anyone else who has been seduced by Dr. Warren through the years, is without excuse. Could there be a teacher more aware of what the Gospel actually is according to Scripture? Someone with a more thorough knowledge of the whole Counsel of God? Someone with more access to the best commentaries, the best theological instruction, the most devout and rigorous Bible teaching colleagues in the land? Yet he falls, and with him, takes innumerable sheep who will trust him to their own destruction.

“Ultimate spiritual betrayal,” really??? Piper is taking us to our “own destruction”??

In a Facebook conversation recently, someone mentioned that Warren taught a works-based righteousness. Another said Piper speaking at Saddleback would be “counter-productive to the gospel effort”. I respect the people who said these things, but I think they are swept up in a frenzy of mis-information, and well-intentioned paranoia.

Rick Warren is not a false teacher or a denier of the Gospel. He may muddy the waters signficantly, but he isn’t a devil or antichrist. He is just the latest incarnation of American revivalism meets pragmatism. His message is not strange. It might not be as clear doctrinally as some would like (although we don’t get to see all the doctrinal teaching that goes on at Saddleback, up close and personal). His preaching may not always be verse-by-verse exposition. But He does revere the Bible and preach a plain Gospel.

It is hard to judge people solely on one-liners given in front of a hostile interviewer. I’m sure Warren’s failed sometimes in articulating the gospel message clearly. In this interview at Fox News, however, I think he did a good job in presenting that Jesus is the only way, and that salvation is a gift — while still not coming off as being extremely judgmental and mean-spirited. But we don’t have to go by just his public media appearances. Here is a 13 minute video where he presents the Gospel, answering the question “What does it mean to begin a personal relationship with Jesus Christ?” Now his gospel presentation there differs little from many given around the country every Sunday. It’s not as clearly Reformed as some would prefer, and it emphasizes a “sinner’s prayer”. But it is still clearly a grace-based, Biblical, Gospel presentation.

I’ve read some of Warren’s reflections about his incredibly popular book, The Purpose Driven Life, where he admits to being Calvinistic in his doctrine, even. I watched his message delivered to the Desiring God National Conference last Fall. I thought it was full of helpful information and really opened up a side of Rick Warren I hadn’t hear much of before. I heard John Piper’s explanations about why he invited Rick Warren: here and here. I’ve also posted about the controversy at length before. (And I’m not the only one who thinks the reactions against Piper and Warren are seriously over-the-top.)

But for my part, Piper speaking at Saddleback, and having a DG Conference at Rick Warren’s church is far less a problem than having Warren come speak at his conference. The Conference is going to be John Piper speaking in three sessions about the essence of “Desiring God”. It will be a standard Piper conference focusing on the 25th anniversary of Piper’s hugely influential (and thoroughly Biblical) book, Desiring God. I am thrilled that many of the people at Saddleback may get to hear that teaching and be shaped by Piper’s emphasis on God’s glory. And then, Piper speaks at Saddleback, and he can give his message and say what’s on his heart. I’ve heard many a well-known Baptist fundamentalist even claim they’d preach at the Vatican if given the chance to preach the gospel. Why should Piper preaching at Saddleback’s pulpit be necessarily a compromise of the Gospel?

This post is a bit of a vent, I’m sorry. It might not flow all that well. I’m just saddened to see so many derail Rick Warren as being an “antichrist”. I literally read someone wish that Piper had called Warren out as exactly that, an “antichrist”. Or just as sad, consider how a commenter at Justin Taylor’s blog described Rick Warren: a “Gospel-betraying, Bible-hating evildoer”! This kind of reaction is over-the-top, and I believe it also “bears false witness” in direct violation of the 9th commandment. The kind of ill-will and judgmentalism displayed toward Piper and Warren is as detrimental to the Gospel and more so, than some of Warren’s public statements which are less than clear about the Gospel.

True Fundamentalists and the Pretenders

~ Bob Hayton ~ 3 Comments

Dr. Dave Doran comments on the two errors to avoid when it comes to separatism. The neglect of a biblical separatism on the one hand, and an excessive “free-for-all” approach, “where any perceived disobedience [becomes] the basis for excluding someone from true fundamentalism”.

I have seen both errors. And both are errors. The fundamentalist extreme though, can get downright dirty. Each fundamentalist group claims to be “true fundamentalists”, and they dig up all the dirt they can on the “pretenders”, those they allege are merely pretending to be true fundamentalists.

Doran Continues:

…It is necessary to separate from professing believers who persistently disobey God’s command to mark and turn away from false teachers/teaching. It is not necessary, though, to separate from those who are committed to this truth, but apply it differently. The application of biblical truth is always situational. One brother is prepared to act now, while another is waiting a little longer. One brother weighs actions differently than another, resulting in a different conclusion. The GARBC men came out in1932, while the CBA men stayed in until 1947. Some separatists worked within the National Association of Evangelicals until the early 50s, while other separatists opposed it from its start in the early 40s. The idea that men of separatist principles and convictions all agreed with each other straight down the line on matters of application is a myth””a myth that usually is wielded by the true fundamentalist crowd in order to marginalize those they want to paint as pretenders. I think I have even been guilty of doing it from time to time over the years.

Frankly, I have no illusions of restoring fundamentalist unity. That ship sailed a long time ago. What I am burdened about is restoring a proper biblical emphasis on the matter of separation from false doctrine and those who teach it. That is such a serious issue that it impacts our relationship even with professing brothers who persistently refuse to obey God on this matter. John R. Rice and those who followed his lead were wrong on this. They abandoned a biblical truth that must not be abandoned. That same truth, though, has also suffered at the hands of those who abused it and produced one schism after another, often for purely partisan reasons. It is crucial, I think, for us to avoid both of these errors so that we guard ourselves from the non-separatist and hyper-separatist ditches on the left and right sides of the road.

[emphasis added]

I’d encourage you to read Doran’s entire blog post, “The Fragmenting of Fundamentalism”. And if you haven’t had a chance yet, read the interesting exchange between Doran, Minnick and Bauder that I shared earlier.

I couldn’t agree more with Doran on his point. This is where I think much of fundamentalism fails badly. It’s not that separatism isn’t important. It’s that separatism takes many shapes and requires discernment. Just because some haven’t joined the fundamentalist camp yet (and many are largely unaware it exists), doesn’t mean they aren’t attempting to apply the biblical teaching on prizing the Gospel so much that one is ready to fight for it’s truths and separate from apostasy.

Often, I’ve found, so-called “true fundamentalists” stand ready to insert an evil motivation of their imagination behind every choice made by the pretenders or the conservative evangelicals (that the “true fundamentalists” disapprove of). Just because these other men didn’t ask you first, doesn’t mean thy didn’t think through the issue carefully.

“Infinite Playlists: How to Have Conversations [Not Conflict] with Your Kids About Music” by Todd Stocker

~ Bob Hayton ~ 25 Comments

In our day, few matters divide generations more readily than music. Each age group has its own musical preferences which the others don’t get, and often can’t appreciate. For Christians, this problem is even more pronounced. The Christian’s submission to Scripture leads inevitably to ethical questions surrounding various elements of modern culture, especially music. This is complicated by the tendency of some Christians to denigrate certain music styles as intrinsically evil.

When it comes to parenting, and dealing with teenagers in particular, it would be easy to ignore the issue of music altogether. Many Christian parents just suffer with whatever music choices their children make, even if they offer an occasional frown. Not a few parents take the opposite approach, and operate like the musical police. This can raise barriers between parent and child, fostering bitterness and resentment. For most of us, we’re not exactly sure how to handle the thorny topic of music.

This is why I was intrigued by the title of a new book from Kregel Publications by Todd Stocker (with notes from his son Nathan): Infinite Playlists: How to Have Conversations [Not Conflict] with Your Kids About Music. The title gets right to the point, and when you open the front cover Stoker wastes no time in confronting the issue head on. In fact, the book is only a short 89 pages, but for many parents and teens today, a shorter book may have a better chance at being picked up and read. Whatever the case, even in these few short pages the book more than adequately covers the problem at hand.

Todd Stocker starts out by describing his love for music and how his Christian faith made him reevaluate his musical choices. His son Nathan’s affinity for hard rock brought him to the place where he had to start working through what music he’d allow his children to tune in to. The book moves on to describe music as a gift from God, but a gift that has been distorted by fallen man. There is a spiritual battle going on over music, and recognizing music’s ability to capture our souls with wonder should help us approach the topic soberly. Make no mistake, however, Stoker is not about a kill joy approach to music. “God never intended Christians to live cloistered.” (pg. 25)

Stocker goes on to trace the emotional, physical and spiritual impact of music, often quoting secular experts and personal experiences to add flavor. He explores various musical genres, and the question of Christian vs. secular music. He understands that the attitude and ethos created by the song conveys some meaning, but ultimately the lyrics make the predominant difference. Yet “God is not in one thing and not in the other”, and so even secular music can be redeemed for His purposes.

The meat of the book comes in his discussion of the working guidelines he’s come up with for his family. They are:

  • What do the lyrics say?
  • What picture does the song paint?
  • What is the mood or feel of the song?
  • Will the song cause others to stumble?
  • Who is the artist or group?

Stocker is careful to convey that a firm, hard line is not easy to achieve. He prefers to discuss these questions with his son Nathan, and together agree on the verdict. Ultimately he has parental veto power, however. Including the children in the decision both empowers them and teaches them how to exercise discernment for themselves.

Stocker finishes the book by encouraging Christians everywhere to take the copyright laws seriously when it comes to music.

Some additional helpful features of the book include the chapter recaps, notes by 13 year old Nathan Stocker sharing his perspective on music at various points in the book, and a chapter exercise for working through the five guidelines and applying them with an actual song. The book also includes some helpful resources in the end-notes.

Before I close this review, I would want to encourage parents to pick up this book and use it as a tool in developing their own approach to how to parent their children when it comes to the arena of music. Stocker’s exhortation is worth quoting here at some length:

God has placed great importance and responsibility on your parental position within the family. Therefore, it is not OK to allow your children to listen to lyrics that could poison their souls. Think of it this way: you would never allow your children to drink gasoline even if it was their choice to do so. Neither should you let your children drink music that could cripple them forever. (pg. 58)

I can’t recommend this book more. It could perhaps have included a bit more material, but that’s the only complaint I’d have. It reads very easy, and manages to tackle a difficult topic with grace. It is immensely helpful, and definitely worth picking up at Amazon.com, or direct from Kregel Publications.

Disclaimer: This book was provided by Kregel Publications for review. I was under no obligation to offer a favorable review.

John Piper on Glorifying God in Your Movie-Watching

~ Bob Hayton

Desiring God just posted John Piper’s thoughts on watching movies, from an Ask Pastor John live event from some time back. From my vantage point I see his thoughts as a helpful corrective to contemporary Christianity. When Christianity Today can publish a glowing review of the “Sex and the City” movie, something is obviously wrong. May we all take care in our entertainment choices and guard our hearts.

Here is the video clip of Pastor John answering the question. Below you’ll find the edited transcript of his answer.

Is it possible to glorify God through the enjoyment of music, movies, literature, etc. produced by secular artists?

Yes. I assume the computer you are holding there was probably not built by Christians, and I hope that you are glorifying God as you tap away at it. And of course out from there, there are a 1000 things that we use all day long, and God says, ‘whatever you do, whether you eat or drink, do all to the glory of God.’ And he knows that you are eating this meat that may have been sacrificed to idols, so that means it was probably butchered by an unbeliever, or handled by an unbeliever, shipped by an unbeliever, it may have been cooked by an unbelieving cook. And here you are savoring the product of all those unbelievers’ work because you are in that moment giving thanks to God for it, recognizing that the earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof and taking the strength and the joy that comes from it to render back to him.

Now with the arts and with media it is more morally complex than with food. But it is the same principle. The complexity of it is, in those moments what do you do with the moral elements of it that are so contrary to your faith?

I’ll just point out one principle because we can talk about this forever. What concerns me is the distinction between entertainment and cultural analysis. To watch something, to study the culture, learn from the culture, be more able to interact with unbelievers for the sake of the glory of Christ is one thing. To just sit and bask in nudity, or bask in fifty f-words, or bask in a world view that is shot through with arrogance to the core, and enjoy it? Hmm. That seems to point to something going on in the heart. And frankly, I have tasted it big time. I think today we are going to have to work at not being shaped by the world because the world has made its world view so scintillatingly attractive.

Movie after movie after movie has come out and most young reformed people are, I would say, indiscriminate. “Let’s go to a movie tonight.” OK, and then we just choose the best. None of the movies in that theater at that night are any good, probably. But you are just going to do it, because that is what you do. You go to the movies on Friday night, or whatever. And then of course you think, we’ve got to Christianize this thing somehow.

I just think we need to test our hearts big time. Big time. Why are we able to enjoy hell bound, God ignoring, Christ dishonoring, false world views because we can give it a little twist at the end that it taught us this or that about the world? So, I think the main thing I’m saying there is, test your heart as to whether entertainment is defaulting to the world, or to something more wholesome. We live in an age where we tend to default to the world for entertainment. [Quoted from Desiring God’s post, emphasis added]

[HT: Sharper Iron’s Filings]